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Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management

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  • Gary Franceundefined Offline
    Gary Franceundefined Offline
    Gary France
    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    I like the new waypoint icons. They are very simple to both understand and use, even just a day after being introduced. Gary.

    Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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    • speedup100undefined speedup100

      Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

      Nick Carthewundefined Offline
      Nick Carthewundefined Offline
      Nick Carthew
      RouteXpert
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

      Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

      @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

      Always willing to help if I can.
      Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
      MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
      Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
      Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
      TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

      Dave J 0undefined speedup100undefined 2 Replies Last reply
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      • Nick Carthewundefined Nick Carthew

        @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

        Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

        @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

        Dave J 0undefined Offline
        Dave J 0undefined Offline
        Dave J 0
        Valued contributor
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        @Nick-Carthew But the prompt says ‘via’ when you hover over the icon menu. I used to have a TT but have swapped to a Garmin Zumo XT; familiar with both systems and so the differing terminologies may cause confusion. Personally, I would like to see the prompt say “stop’ as I would agree with @speedup100 that the ‘via’ terminology does appear confusing. Also, Waypoints and shaping points (alerting and non-alerting) are Garmin terms that could add further confusion to TT users. A ‘via’, to me, does tend to indicate a shaping point and so I would prefer to see the term ‘Stop’ used which could be applied to any waypoint (shaping point).

        Another term I have seen is a ‘reporting point’ but I can see this becoming horribly confusing. It certainly was an education when I moved from Garmin to TT, and then back to Garmin with how points are termed and used/behave within the different systems. 😕

        Kind Regards. Help where I can.
        Ducati Multistrada V4 Rally
        iPhone 15 Pro
        Chigee AIO-5 Play
        Google Pixel 6 Pro - mounted on SP Connect Plus
        Ex Garmin XT2 and XT1 as well as Ex TomTom Rider User

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        • Nick Carthewundefined Nick Carthew

          @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

          Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

          @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

          speedup100undefined Offline
          speedup100undefined Offline
          speedup100
          wrote on last edited by speedup100
          #18

          @Nick-Carthew said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

          @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

          Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

          @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

          Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

          Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Gary Franceundefined Gary France

            I like the new waypoint icons. They are very simple to both understand and use, even just a day after being introduced. Gary.

            Drabslabundefined Offline
            Drabslabundefined Offline
            Drabslab
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            @Gary-France I agree, I also think we should be prepared to adapt to a new situation otherwise there is absolutely no incentive to introduce new features no matter how usefulo these would be.

            It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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            • speedup100undefined speedup100

              @Nick-Carthew said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

              @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

              Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

              @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

              Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

              Drabslabundefined Offline
              Drabslabundefined Offline
              Drabslab
              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

              I agree, seems like an easy thign to solve for the developers. STOP would be a better word.

              77efa6f5-586e-404b-b1e4-b16c063dd50d-image.png

              Instead of "shaping" maybe use "way".

              It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

              Nick Carthewundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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              • Drabslabundefined Drabslab

                Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

                I agree, seems like an easy thign to solve for the developers. STOP would be a better word.

                77efa6f5-586e-404b-b1e4-b16c063dd50d-image.png

                Instead of "shaping" maybe use "way".

                Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                Nick Carthew
                RouteXpert
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                @speedup100 and @Drabslab Yes, indeed it is confusing and your thoughts will be passed on. Thanks

                Always willing to help if I can.
                Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Nick Carthewundefined Nick Carthew

                  @speedup100 and @Drabslab Yes, indeed it is confusing and your thoughts will be passed on. Thanks

                  Drabslabundefined Offline
                  Drabslabundefined Offline
                  Drabslab
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  @Nick-Carthew These are small things really, call it finetuning. 🙂 but important nevertheless.

                  Thanks for passing it on :-)By the way, I think that we should have a wiki next to the forum as reference manual for this evolving tool.

                  It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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                  • MyRoute-app communityundefined Offline
                    MyRoute-app communityundefined Offline
                    MyRoute-app community
                    Administrator
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    Hello everyone,

                    Just jumping in here to share some of the design concerns relating to the wording of "Via" and "Stop".

                    First of all, for all international (non-Dutch) purposes we are considering using "Shaping" and "Via" as the only words available to pick from. Additionally, we're not aiming to make this a Garmin-specific feature, but for the initial release this was the easiest to implement. We want to show TomTom and Smartphone users a distinct difference between Shaping- and Via-points as well.

                    As for the naming convention and the specific choice to no longer go with "Stop". There's a lot of synonyms for this functionality available, for example some talk about "Stopping points", places that you absolutely have to stop at. Others talk about "Hard points", allegorically expressing how there's points that you won't notice if you skip them as "soft" and points that have to be visited as "Hard". Please understand that we've thought hard about what word would be best fitting and that we remain open to the idea that there are better definitions for these points.

                    Linguistically though, the word "Shaping point" and "via point" are of all available words the most accurate. A "shaping point" does exactly that, it generally shapes a route that will be followed by navigation system in a flexible manner. Via points also describe what they are, they are points "via which" you must travel. Explained, this does make sense. But again, we remain open for discussion on this subject.

                    Kind regards,

                    Timo

                    Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • MyRoute-app communityundefined MyRoute-app community

                      Hello everyone,

                      Just jumping in here to share some of the design concerns relating to the wording of "Via" and "Stop".

                      First of all, for all international (non-Dutch) purposes we are considering using "Shaping" and "Via" as the only words available to pick from. Additionally, we're not aiming to make this a Garmin-specific feature, but for the initial release this was the easiest to implement. We want to show TomTom and Smartphone users a distinct difference between Shaping- and Via-points as well.

                      As for the naming convention and the specific choice to no longer go with "Stop". There's a lot of synonyms for this functionality available, for example some talk about "Stopping points", places that you absolutely have to stop at. Others talk about "Hard points", allegorically expressing how there's points that you won't notice if you skip them as "soft" and points that have to be visited as "Hard". Please understand that we've thought hard about what word would be best fitting and that we remain open to the idea that there are better definitions for these points.

                      Linguistically though, the word "Shaping point" and "via point" are of all available words the most accurate. A "shaping point" does exactly that, it generally shapes a route that will be followed by navigation system in a flexible manner. Via points also describe what they are, they are points "via which" you must travel. Explained, this does make sense. But again, we remain open for discussion on this subject.

                      Kind regards,

                      Timo

                      Drabslabundefined Offline
                      Drabslabundefined Offline
                      Drabslab
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      @Timo-Martosatiman-MRA In all honesty, this is a bit trivial in my opinion, I can live with any word as long as it is decently defined and explained. And maybe it is the consequence of a surprise release that there is no detailed release note or documentation available? Or Am I being blind again?

                      I would repeat my suggestion for a user managed wiki here but that would also become boring 🙂

                      It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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                      • speedup100undefined Offline
                        speedup100undefined Offline
                        speedup100
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        I agree with drabslab that a wiki detailing the changes with release 1.1 would have been useful, for example a mention to say that Stops would now be called Shaping would have saved some confusion, the 1.1 release was just dropped in without any explanations.

                        Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • speedup100undefined speedup100

                          I agree with drabslab that a wiki detailing the changes with release 1.1 would have been useful, for example a mention to say that Stops would now be called Shaping would have saved some confusion, the 1.1 release was just dropped in without any explanations.

                          Drabslabundefined Offline
                          Drabslabundefined Offline
                          Drabslab
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          @speedup100 said: the 1.1 release was just dropped in without any explanations.

                          True, but it was very welcome nevertheless. 🙂

                          Change managment is a subject on its own. Documentation is usually one of the last considerations, and has the habit of becoming outdated very fast.

                          It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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                          • Will Brooksundefined Offline
                            Will Brooksundefined Offline
                            Will Brooks
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            Really great to see new features to expand the usability of the software, however, I'm also a little frustrated at this release as a Garmin user. By default it appears that only the start and finish points are set as "announced way points" and all the in between points are automatically "shaping points". I don't like using "shaping points". I know I can go and change each point to get my desired route all as "announced way points" but this is a real ball ache especially on long routes and time consuming. An option to set the default behaviour of points so we have a choice rather than be forced one way or the other would be preferable.

                            As a workaround, would I be correct in saying that if I were to just export to GPX1.0 format, all points are automatically "announced way points" as 1.0 doesn't support "shaping points"?

                            Nick Carthewundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • Will Brooksundefined Will Brooks

                              Really great to see new features to expand the usability of the software, however, I'm also a little frustrated at this release as a Garmin user. By default it appears that only the start and finish points are set as "announced way points" and all the in between points are automatically "shaping points". I don't like using "shaping points". I know I can go and change each point to get my desired route all as "announced way points" but this is a real ball ache especially on long routes and time consuming. An option to set the default behaviour of points so we have a choice rather than be forced one way or the other would be preferable.

                              As a workaround, would I be correct in saying that if I were to just export to GPX1.0 format, all points are automatically "announced way points" as 1.0 doesn't support "shaping points"?

                              Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                              Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                              Nick Carthew
                              RouteXpert
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #28

                              @Will-Brooks said: By default it appears that only the start and finish points are set as "announced way points" and all the in between points are automatically "shaping points".

                              Please don’t introduce another term for the Stop/Via waypoint argument 🤣

                              Always willing to help if I can.
                              Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                              MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                              Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                              Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                              TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

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                              • Will Brooksundefined Offline
                                Will Brooksundefined Offline
                                Will Brooks
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                Have been playing about and to answer my own question it appears that if I save a route as GPX 1.0 then all points in MRA planner default to "announced way points" or via points - whatever terminology you wish to use 😉

                                The Beta GPX 1.1 works well for shaping points on my Garmin XT and behaves as you would expect. The standard GPX 1.1 (Route, track and POI) just draws straight lines, but the old trick of changing the route calculation in the Garmin from fastest to shortest and then back to fastest makes it behave like the Beta GPX 1.1 (One caveat - I've only tried it on a very short simple route with 7 points)

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                                • Ben Craigundefined Ben Craig

                                  I noticed today the the default waypoint icon has changed from a pin to what looks a little bit like a hand. And when you click the way point, the balloon now shows a bunch of redesigned icons which seem to have been lifted straight out of Windows 95 or some other app of that era!

                                  The old icon set was more modern, cleaner, and more useful. Is there a configuration setting to revert to the old icons. If not, can there be please? This update has reduced usability and the visual identify of the app, not improved it.

                                  FrankSundefined Offline
                                  FrankSundefined Offline
                                  FrankS
                                  wrote on last edited by FrankS
                                  #30

                                  @Ben-Craig

                                  I completely agree with your feedback, espacially regarding lack of usabiliy of the new icons. This is in particular true for the way point icon: the old icon was easy to place exactly on the road where you want to drive, the new icon is always off the route, so that I always need to move the icon on the road after I have placed it.

                                  My minimum requirement is to be able to configure in my settings if I want to use the old or the new style. The new style is - my personal opinion - not even pretty, but a very rough design.

                                  But most important: Nice looking is not the same as usability! It should be much easier for users to do the most frequent use case which is to plan a route by setting way points where they shall be - not on a minor street next to it!

                                  So strong like for Ben's feedback from my end!
                                  Freddy

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                                  • PAD 0undefined Offline
                                    PAD 0undefined Offline
                                    PAD 0
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    I agree that the waypoint icons are very difficult to locate accurately - the finger used to move them hides them. This is plain daft! Other than that, I’m ok with the icons, apart from the final one on ‘more icons’…

                                    Firstly the icon is obscure - it’s a bit of a stretch to arrive at ‘skip’ from an image of a Land Rover going up a hill!

                                    However, launching us straight back into ‘daft’ territory, is the fact that when the ‘more icons’ icon is selected, the ‘skip’ icon is totally obscured by a black box with the words ‘more icons’ writ large upon it… that only appears after you hit the ‘more icons’ icon!!! THAT is nothing short of pitiful. Thankfully in a laughable kind of way!

                                    Nick Carthewundefined 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • PAD 0undefined PAD 0

                                      I agree that the waypoint icons are very difficult to locate accurately - the finger used to move them hides them. This is plain daft! Other than that, I’m ok with the icons, apart from the final one on ‘more icons’…

                                      Firstly the icon is obscure - it’s a bit of a stretch to arrive at ‘skip’ from an image of a Land Rover going up a hill!

                                      However, launching us straight back into ‘daft’ territory, is the fact that when the ‘more icons’ icon is selected, the ‘skip’ icon is totally obscured by a black box with the words ‘more icons’ writ large upon it… that only appears after you hit the ‘more icons’ icon!!! THAT is nothing short of pitiful. Thankfully in a laughable kind of way!

                                      Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                                      Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                                      Nick Carthew
                                      RouteXpert
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      @PAD-0 Turn on “Place Waypoint Button” in the toolkit. This way you have crosshairs to accurately line up the position. 352B128C-7ACA-44E5-90BD-F4DB4FFD5032.png

                                      Always willing to help if I can.
                                      Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                                      MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                                      Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                                      Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                                      TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                                      PAD 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • PAD 0undefined PAD 0

                                        I agree that the waypoint icons are very difficult to locate accurately - the finger used to move them hides them. This is plain daft! Other than that, I’m ok with the icons, apart from the final one on ‘more icons’…

                                        Firstly the icon is obscure - it’s a bit of a stretch to arrive at ‘skip’ from an image of a Land Rover going up a hill!

                                        However, launching us straight back into ‘daft’ territory, is the fact that when the ‘more icons’ icon is selected, the ‘skip’ icon is totally obscured by a black box with the words ‘more icons’ writ large upon it… that only appears after you hit the ‘more icons’ icon!!! THAT is nothing short of pitiful. Thankfully in a laughable kind of way!

                                        Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                                        Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                                        Nick Carthew
                                        RouteXpert
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        @PAD-0 Click on the route point box after clicking more options and the black box disappears. 92429BD9-706D-4049-A9C8-CFA0F1B34EAF.png

                                        Always willing to help if I can.
                                        Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                                        MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                                        Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                                        Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                                        TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                                        PAD 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Nick Carthewundefined Nick Carthew

                                          @PAD-0 Turn on “Place Waypoint Button” in the toolkit. This way you have crosshairs to accurately line up the position. 352B128C-7ACA-44E5-90BD-F4DB4FFD5032.png

                                          PAD 0undefined Offline
                                          PAD 0undefined Offline
                                          PAD 0
                                          wrote on last edited by PAD 0
                                          #34

                                          @Nick-Carthew Thank you for your suggestion, but I have that on already - it would be quite challenging to create routes at all without it I think. What I was addressing was the modification of a route by moving existing waypoints. On a PC, using a mouse, this isn’t an issue, but it’s a real pain on touch screens. Clearly, much bigger markers might be undesirable in some circumstances, so that’s probably not an easy fix. A longer ‘tail’ to the waypoint marker might help? Or use of pin or flag icons? Just enough to avoid the ‘business end’ of the icon being obscured. I should, perhaps, add that I don’t have great, fat fingers by any means!

                                          Nick Carthewundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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