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Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management

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  • Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
    Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
    Jack van Tilburg
    wrote on last edited by
    #8

    I think the TS doesn't just mean the hand icon. TS refers to the balloon with other icons.
    And I agree with TS that these are very poorly chosen images and I have a hard time recognizing the meaning of each icon at a glance.

    Schermafbeelding 2020-11-20 om 15.06.20.png

    Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Jack van Tilburgundefined Jack van Tilburg

      I think the TS doesn't just mean the hand icon. TS refers to the balloon with other icons.
      And I agree with TS that these are very poorly chosen images and I have a hard time recognizing the meaning of each icon at a glance.

      Schermafbeelding 2020-11-20 om 15.06.20.png

      Drabslabundefined Offline
      Drabslabundefined Offline
      Drabslab
      wrote on last edited by
      #9

      @Jack-van-Tilburg Hoovering over them gives a nice tooltip

      96d9318b-3973-4460-807b-751286c73968-image.png

      that explains what is below the button. It may be requireing some getting used to but I guess we will manage

      It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

      Jack van Tilburgundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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      • Drabslabundefined Drabslab

        @Jack-van-Tilburg Hoovering over them gives a nice tooltip

        96d9318b-3973-4460-807b-751286c73968-image.png

        that explains what is below the button. It may be requireing some getting used to but I guess we will manage

        Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
        Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
        Jack van Tilburg
        wrote on last edited by
        #10

        @Drabslab
        I know that. But if you have to hover it is proof that the icons are not intuitive.

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        • Ben Craigundefined Ben Craig

          @Nick-Carthew said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

          I’m sure that you’ll begin to enjoy the new look...

          Not likely. The icon set in the balloons fails on the best practice front for icon design. They are way too busy visually, so the user now has an increased cognitive load to make sense of them. A user shouldn't have to work hard to understand what an icon means. Good icon design is about clear and simple communication. These new icons are a step in the opposite direction 😞

          Robert Purvisundefined Offline
          Robert Purvisundefined Offline
          Robert Purvis
          wrote on last edited by
          #11

          @Ben-Craig I agree.

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          • speedup100undefined Offline
            speedup100undefined Offline
            speedup100
            wrote on last edited by
            #12

            If I'm understanding the update correctly the hand icon is a via and the original balloon is a stop, why then is the icon at the beginning and end of a route a hand that you cannot change, my thoughts are the beginning and end icons should be balloons with hands inbetween other than designated stops i.e balloons.

            Nick Carthewundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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            • speedup100undefined speedup100

              If I'm understanding the update correctly the hand icon is a via and the original balloon is a stop, why then is the icon at the beginning and end of a route a hand that you cannot change, my thoughts are the beginning and end icons should be balloons with hands inbetween other than designated stops i.e balloons.

              Nick Carthewundefined Offline
              Nick Carthewundefined Offline
              Nick Carthew
              RouteXpert
              wrote on last edited by Nick Carthew
              #13

              @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

              If I'm understanding the update correctly the hand icon is a via and the original balloon is a stop, why then is the icon at the beginning and end of a route a hand that you cannot change, my thoughts are the beginning and end icons should be balloons with hands inbetween other than designated stops i.e balloons.

              @speedup100 It’s the other way round. The hand icon is for stop waypoints and balloons are for via ones. The first and last WPs are automatically added as stops. You will notice that each time you add a WP to a route it will show as a hand and change to a balloon when you add the next one.

              Always willing to help if I can.
              Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
              MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
              Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
              Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
              TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

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              • speedup100undefined Offline
                speedup100undefined Offline
                speedup100
                wrote on last edited by
                #14

                Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

                Nick Carthewundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Gary Franceundefined Offline
                  Gary Franceundefined Offline
                  Gary France
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #15

                  I like the new waypoint icons. They are very simple to both understand and use, even just a day after being introduced. Gary.

                  Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • speedup100undefined speedup100

                    Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

                    Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                    Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                    Nick Carthew
                    RouteXpert
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #16

                    @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

                    Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

                    @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

                    Always willing to help if I can.
                    Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                    MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                    Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                    Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                    TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                    Dave J 0undefined speedup100undefined 2 Replies Last reply
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                    • Nick Carthewundefined Nick Carthew

                      @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

                      Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

                      @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

                      Dave J 0undefined Offline
                      Dave J 0undefined Offline
                      Dave J 0
                      Valued contributor
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #17

                      @Nick-Carthew But the prompt says ‘via’ when you hover over the icon menu. I used to have a TT but have swapped to a Garmin Zumo XT; familiar with both systems and so the differing terminologies may cause confusion. Personally, I would like to see the prompt say “stop’ as I would agree with @speedup100 that the ‘via’ terminology does appear confusing. Also, Waypoints and shaping points (alerting and non-alerting) are Garmin terms that could add further confusion to TT users. A ‘via’, to me, does tend to indicate a shaping point and so I would prefer to see the term ‘Stop’ used which could be applied to any waypoint (shaping point).

                      Another term I have seen is a ‘reporting point’ but I can see this becoming horribly confusing. It certainly was an education when I moved from Garmin to TT, and then back to Garmin with how points are termed and used/behave within the different systems. 😕

                      Kind Regards. Help where I can.
                      Ducati Multistrada V4 Rally
                      iPhone 15 Pro
                      Chigee AIO-5 Play
                      Google Pixel 6 Pro - mounted on SP Connect Plus
                      Ex Garmin XT2 and XT1 as well as Ex TomTom Rider User

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                      • Nick Carthewundefined Nick Carthew

                        @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

                        Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

                        @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

                        speedup100undefined Offline
                        speedup100undefined Offline
                        speedup100
                        wrote on last edited by speedup100
                        #18

                        @Nick-Carthew said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

                        @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

                        Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

                        @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

                        Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

                        Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Gary Franceundefined Gary France

                          I like the new waypoint icons. They are very simple to both understand and use, even just a day after being introduced. Gary.

                          Drabslabundefined Offline
                          Drabslabundefined Offline
                          Drabslab
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #19

                          @Gary-France I agree, I also think we should be prepared to adapt to a new situation otherwise there is absolutely no incentive to introduce new features no matter how usefulo these would be.

                          It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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                          • speedup100undefined speedup100

                            @Nick-Carthew said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

                            @speedup100 said in Revert to old icons for way points and waypoint management:

                            Confusing, for one thing I've no idea what shaping is which seems to be something connected with Garmin whereas I use tomtom. That said if you already have a balloon icon on a route and click on it you are offered the option to turn it into a via which becomes a hand, so that says to me it in now not a stop.

                            @speedup100. I’m a TomTom user too. From what I gather Garmins work slightly differently to TTs. When you add stop ✋ points the Garmin has to pass that WP but it is more flexible with the via balloon WPs and may take you on a slightly different route to the next stop point depending on conditions. The hand icon is definitely a stop point.

                            Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

                            Drabslabundefined Offline
                            Drabslabundefined Offline
                            Drabslab
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #20

                            Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

                            I agree, seems like an easy thign to solve for the developers. STOP would be a better word.

                            77efa6f5-586e-404b-b1e4-b16c063dd50d-image.png

                            Instead of "shaping" maybe use "way".

                            It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

                            Nick Carthewundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Drabslabundefined Drabslab

                              Hi Nick, I think the confusing bit is that hovering over a balloon brings up the word via which when you click on it, it becomes a hand which by its image indicates stop but by the fact you clicked the word via gives the opposite impression, confuses me anyway. I also think MRA have made a mistake in introducing a Garmin word "Shaping" to a generalised route planner. What's wrong with stop, it's almost an international word, it even appears on foreign road signs.

                              I agree, seems like an easy thign to solve for the developers. STOP would be a better word.

                              77efa6f5-586e-404b-b1e4-b16c063dd50d-image.png

                              Instead of "shaping" maybe use "way".

                              Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                              Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                              Nick Carthew
                              RouteXpert
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #21

                              @speedup100 and @Drabslab Yes, indeed it is confusing and your thoughts will be passed on. Thanks

                              Always willing to help if I can.
                              Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                              MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                              Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                              Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                              TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                              Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Nick Carthewundefined Nick Carthew

                                @speedup100 and @Drabslab Yes, indeed it is confusing and your thoughts will be passed on. Thanks

                                Drabslabundefined Offline
                                Drabslabundefined Offline
                                Drabslab
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #22

                                @Nick-Carthew These are small things really, call it finetuning. 🙂 but important nevertheless.

                                Thanks for passing it on :-)By the way, I think that we should have a wiki next to the forum as reference manual for this evolving tool.

                                It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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                                • MyRoute-app communityundefined Offline
                                  MyRoute-app communityundefined Offline
                                  MyRoute-app community
                                  Administrator
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #23

                                  Hello everyone,

                                  Just jumping in here to share some of the design concerns relating to the wording of "Via" and "Stop".

                                  First of all, for all international (non-Dutch) purposes we are considering using "Shaping" and "Via" as the only words available to pick from. Additionally, we're not aiming to make this a Garmin-specific feature, but for the initial release this was the easiest to implement. We want to show TomTom and Smartphone users a distinct difference between Shaping- and Via-points as well.

                                  As for the naming convention and the specific choice to no longer go with "Stop". There's a lot of synonyms for this functionality available, for example some talk about "Stopping points", places that you absolutely have to stop at. Others talk about "Hard points", allegorically expressing how there's points that you won't notice if you skip them as "soft" and points that have to be visited as "Hard". Please understand that we've thought hard about what word would be best fitting and that we remain open to the idea that there are better definitions for these points.

                                  Linguistically though, the word "Shaping point" and "via point" are of all available words the most accurate. A "shaping point" does exactly that, it generally shapes a route that will be followed by navigation system in a flexible manner. Via points also describe what they are, they are points "via which" you must travel. Explained, this does make sense. But again, we remain open for discussion on this subject.

                                  Kind regards,

                                  Timo

                                  Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • MyRoute-app communityundefined MyRoute-app community

                                    Hello everyone,

                                    Just jumping in here to share some of the design concerns relating to the wording of "Via" and "Stop".

                                    First of all, for all international (non-Dutch) purposes we are considering using "Shaping" and "Via" as the only words available to pick from. Additionally, we're not aiming to make this a Garmin-specific feature, but for the initial release this was the easiest to implement. We want to show TomTom and Smartphone users a distinct difference between Shaping- and Via-points as well.

                                    As for the naming convention and the specific choice to no longer go with "Stop". There's a lot of synonyms for this functionality available, for example some talk about "Stopping points", places that you absolutely have to stop at. Others talk about "Hard points", allegorically expressing how there's points that you won't notice if you skip them as "soft" and points that have to be visited as "Hard". Please understand that we've thought hard about what word would be best fitting and that we remain open to the idea that there are better definitions for these points.

                                    Linguistically though, the word "Shaping point" and "via point" are of all available words the most accurate. A "shaping point" does exactly that, it generally shapes a route that will be followed by navigation system in a flexible manner. Via points also describe what they are, they are points "via which" you must travel. Explained, this does make sense. But again, we remain open for discussion on this subject.

                                    Kind regards,

                                    Timo

                                    Drabslabundefined Offline
                                    Drabslabundefined Offline
                                    Drabslab
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #24

                                    @Timo-Martosatiman-MRA In all honesty, this is a bit trivial in my opinion, I can live with any word as long as it is decently defined and explained. And maybe it is the consequence of a surprise release that there is no detailed release note or documentation available? Or Am I being blind again?

                                    I would repeat my suggestion for a user managed wiki here but that would also become boring 🙂

                                    It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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                                    • speedup100undefined Offline
                                      speedup100undefined Offline
                                      speedup100
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #25

                                      I agree with drabslab that a wiki detailing the changes with release 1.1 would have been useful, for example a mention to say that Stops would now be called Shaping would have saved some confusion, the 1.1 release was just dropped in without any explanations.

                                      Drabslabundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • speedup100undefined speedup100

                                        I agree with drabslab that a wiki detailing the changes with release 1.1 would have been useful, for example a mention to say that Stops would now be called Shaping would have saved some confusion, the 1.1 release was just dropped in without any explanations.

                                        Drabslabundefined Offline
                                        Drabslabundefined Offline
                                        Drabslab
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #26

                                        @speedup100 said: the 1.1 release was just dropped in without any explanations.

                                        True, but it was very welcome nevertheless. 🙂

                                        Change managment is a subject on its own. Documentation is usually one of the last considerations, and has the habit of becoming outdated very fast.

                                        It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby

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                                        • Will Brooksundefined Offline
                                          Will Brooksundefined Offline
                                          Will Brooks
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #27

                                          Really great to see new features to expand the usability of the software, however, I'm also a little frustrated at this release as a Garmin user. By default it appears that only the start and finish points are set as "announced way points" and all the in between points are automatically "shaping points". I don't like using "shaping points". I know I can go and change each point to get my desired route all as "announced way points" but this is a real ball ache especially on long routes and time consuming. An option to set the default behaviour of points so we have a choice rather than be forced one way or the other would be preferable.

                                          As a workaround, would I be correct in saying that if I were to just export to GPX1.0 format, all points are automatically "announced way points" as 1.0 doesn't support "shaping points"?

                                          Nick Carthewundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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