The web planner needs some love & development?

[Peter 3b]

For me the core functionality of MRA is the web-based routeplanner. This is why I've become a gold member, and as many of you, I am now managing hundreds of routes and tracks with it.

The only use I personally have for the MRA app is as a gateway between my Android nav-phone (running Kurviger, Locus, OSMand etc) and my MRA routes archive. I don't want or need one integrated "MRA experience", I want to be able to pick the best point solution for every job and tie it together with GPX. So it hurts a bit to see so much of MRA dev effort go into the app, where it has to compete with 10s of other/better products.

Guys, you have a UNIQUE property in the planner, which is the only fully featured route planner that includes so many routing engines, layers, Google Streetview integration etc.

How about spending some love & care & dev resources on this?

Some areas that are really starting to hurt:

• showing and managing multiple routes in a folder (must be the #1 request here over the past few years, "a la Basecamp"), in order to plan longer trips
• reliably handling big GPX files, KML conversion etc (too many random error messages when importing GPX from non-MRA sources, ACT, TET)
• functions to manage multiple tracks, segments and POIs in one GPX file (see gpx.studio for inspiration) - also on import & export
• reliably handling big routes, instead of just giving up; remove the 200 waypoint restriction

I understand that this is a community forum, so I don't expect any formal follow-up by MRA.
However, I would really love to see a backlog for the next-gen route planner!

[Jack van Tilburg]

@Peter-3b
I really hope this post gets a lot of 'Upvotes'.

[Richard 18]

reliably handling big routes, instead of just giving up; remove the 200 waypoint restriction

How big do you have in mind?

[Peter 3b]

@Richard-18 Maybe 500 would be reasonable? The underlying theme is multi-day trips. To plan those I often make a separate overview route covering the entire trip, just to get a feel for distances and time, etc -- and this is where I would run up to the 200 limit. The choice to recalculate the entire route on every click gets very tedious too, though, in this scenario, see below.

The current web planner is excellent for planning (a) single day routes, (b) on asphalt. You can of course put a bunch of day-trips in a folder and if you don't mind the work (add route -> add route -> add route...) show them at the same time, but that's about as far as MRA goes in supporting multi-day trips.

My ideal for a successor would be a planner that would support multiple segments that can be linked into a trip. With an overview of the entire trip (with insight into distances and times per segment), and with the possibility to drill down and edit into the individual segments. And flexible export and import options, eg, map to individual GPX files, to GPX tracks or GPX segments.

While we're at it: maybe allow mixing in offroad segments, so I can find a home for my TET and ACT tracks and bind them into my trips.

Side note: currently every route gets fully recomputed whenever you open it or edit it. I think the scalability of MRA would be much improved if they would cache route computations (routes are viewed much more often than edited) and don't open an entire trip in edit mode. In terms of resources, it would become much "cheaper" to work with multiple segments and >5.000 km trips. (And to show an entire folder of routes on the map, so I can see "where I and others have been".)

Well apologies for a lot of text in response to your simple question. Hope this helps.
Cheers, -Peter

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@Peter-3b
500 points in 1 route..... How many KM do you drive in 1 day, I wonder?

[Peter 3b]

Btw, +1 on Philippe's request to support collaboration on routes, instead of having to copy back and forth! Above my pay grade, but maybe route caching could be combined with a versioning/timestamping mechanism to make that work.

[Peter 3b]

@Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master Hmm, have you read the rest of my reply? MRA is fine to plan single day routes. And I have been very happy with it. But time moves on, MRA (web) is standing still. It would be silly BTW if this thread becomes about the max number of waypoints, that is not my point.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@Peter-3b

Yes i did read your post.
let's wait on the major maintenance of the website, keep an eye on the forum for this.

[Jack van Tilburg]

@Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

keep an eye on the forum for this

This topic received nine eleven upvotes within 24 hours. Especially from users who are not often visibly active on our forum. I think that is meaningful. There aren't many topics here that have received more upvotes. So I don't think it's very stylish to give such a vague answer.

[Corjan Meijerink]

@Peter-3b Thanks a lot for starting this post!

Yes, I agree with everything you say.
Do know that the planner gets quite a lot of love. However, there indeed is currently no massive development going on. The root cause it quite easy to explain: we are a small, very small company.

so I don't expect any formal follow-up by MRA

That is something I try to do at all times for the more relevant posts! Generic questions about MRA are perfectly answered by community members but the more technical questions will get a reply by myself and furthermore I will especially respond to these kind of posts.

Currently at MRA we are working on a major update for the app to improve the stability of especially CarPlay and Android Auto No, this is not related to the Routeplanner but choices have to be made. Once the app functions more stable (it does already fairly well!) across all platforms, this revenue stream can be made to invest in more Routeplanner features again.

All suggestions you've made are extremely high on our wish list too. Regarding all technical items on the wish list, I and Joost are your secret santa We got quite long lists and only two pair of hands each with only so much hours in a week. I can't imagine how Santa himself must feel after christmas!

So how can I correctly answer your question? Let me acknowledge the fact that the website will continue to be maintained and the requested features will be added. Can I yet indicate when? No, unfortunately not.
Besides adding features, we are aiming to do a complete rework of the Routeplanner due to increased complexity and above all deprecations of the current technical foundation / architecture. Just like a rework of the app, a similar approach for the website will be initiated this year. Regardless of that, the existing Routeplanner will be maintained and improved.

The web planner will definitely get the it deserves!
Are my answers to your satisfaction? I do hope so!

[Peter 3b]

@Corjan-Meijerink Hi Corjan, thanks for taking the time to give us some background and some insight into the high-level priorities and development schedule. At this moment I have nowhere else to go, so I will remain a somewhat grudgingly loyal user, hoping for better times.

[Corjan Meijerink]

@Peter-3b That's fine for me! As long as we realise that the Routeplanner we have already is a great tool and we accept choices have to be made I'm happy

I'll discuss the planning internally and aim to publish a statement about the path forwards.

[Drabslab]

@Jack-van-Tilburg said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

I really hope this post gets a lot of 'Upvotes'

I think it is about time to stop tinkering with the navigation app and do a last big effort on solving the bugs (battery drain?) and then concentrate on the planning tool.

@Corjan-Meijerink said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

publish a statement about the path forwards

Looking forward to read that statement but please, if you make a statement, be sure that you can stick to it. Another planning that is not realised will not increase credibility.

[Jack van Tilburg]

@Drabslab said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

I think it is about time to stop tinkering with the navigation app and do a last big effort on solving the bugs (battery drain?) and then concentrate on the planning tool

I would be happy to respond to this. But I am well aware that a critical opinion on this forum (about Next, for example) is quickly punished and that would not promote the good atmosphere here.
Corjan has responded and I will wait and see.
It is striking and very positive that many upvotes were given by mostly users who are not very active here.

[Stephen Rowland]

@Peter-3b Personally I'm reasonably happy with the route planner at present. I would prefer that the Nav app gets fully sorted with regard to battery drain and car play for when I use the car. I much prefer on my bike to use the app over and above any other nav app because it's the only one that shows correctly the shaping points and via points I create in the planner. However, as you say, there are areas in the planner that could be enhanced, mainly your suggestion regarding "showing and managing multiple routes in a folder".

The way I like to plan a tour is to start with the complete round trip with all cities etc so I can ensure it is achievable in X days and mileage is within reason. Then I plan separately each day based on that and tweak it depending on bookable hotels etc. It would be great for me if I could split my big rough round trip into sections representing each day, but then when I plan those days in detail it gets fed back into the "master" big round trip. Hope that makes sense!!

[Con Hennekens]

@Jack-van-Tilburg said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

But I am well aware that a critical opinion on this forum (about Next, for example) is quickly punished and that would not promote the good atmosphere here.

I think this is not very true. I think opinions are mostly welcomed and used as input beyond what I have ever seen on any other public software forum. That does not mean though that everyone has to agree with everything Especially your input, very generously given, is valued by me and many.

On topic and in general:
Yes I think we should not forget that the webplanner as it is, already is the best tool out there. Yes, a lot can be improved to make it even better. But of course it is best to finish the app first before drawing attention elsewhere. I agree that a feature freeze on the app would be good, because else it will never be finished. I think the deployment of the greatly overhauled CP/AA functionality will soon show how finished the app can be. Then developer attention will only be needed for bug fixing, and time will be available for the planner development.

I can't wait for the exciting things to come!

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@Jack-van-Tilburg

That's not true @Jack, everyone is allowed to share their opinion here.

This is approximately the same as when the MyRoute app was launched in 2013/2014, when there were 1001 questions/ideas to adjust the planner, and a lot of things were realized. And as Corjan indicates, MRA is a small company with 4 programmer hands. There are plenty of ideas and plans and the company makes its choices, which I think we should respect.
Let's just keep an eye on the forum and when the time comes, there will be an announcement on the forum.

[Don Stauffer]

@Stephen-Rowland I appreciated your comments on route planning. My process is very similar, starting with an overall route (7-10+days), identifying interesting roads and scenery. Then the hard work of breaking down individual day rides with reasonable timelines and a decent destination when the day is done. At the end, I often 're-build' the entire route by stringing together the daily routes for future planning purposes.

I agree with others that the Route Planner is the application that is most important to me. My Garmin loads the files I create in MRA, and I use it on the bike and in the car. I really don't use a phone or tablet for serious navigation. I realize that my situation may be different than the typical MRA customer. I live in a very large and diverse country, and my wife and I are both retired. So we enjoy long trips that require a lot of up-front planning.

But I'm content to wait for new feature development, The product continues to evolve. It was better than any of the alternatives that I tried back when I decided to become a lifetime member. I do look forward to more features in the Route Planner. I've suggested a few, and gotten positive responses from the team. You only get that level of interaction from a small, dedicated company. I feel lucky to be their customer!

[Drabslab]

Yes I think we should not forget that the webplanner as it is, already is the best tool out there.

Indeed!

MRA is a small company with 4 programmer hands.

pffff, they ony need to type faster

but let us please give them the time to analyse well. That eventually leads to better development and less bugs.

I agree that a feature freeze on the app would be good, because else it will never be finished.

I can only agree to this and I think that several people here notice a kind of feature creep leading to the typical never ending programming story.

Then developer attention will only be needed for bug fixing,

you are very optimistic here. I was once involved in "correcting a situation" and discovered that nothing was progressing because the developers spent 90% (not a typing mistake) on correcting bugs.

and time will be available for the planner development.

I see that slightly different.

I agree that planner and navigator are two distinct animals with their own purpose and scope, and overlap between the two should too a large extend be avoided.

However, it makes no sense to e.g. improve the planners POI handling, and not making sure immediately (in the same sprint or how is this called these days) that the navigator can exploit these new planning features.

Corjan has responded and I will wait and see.

Me too

[RetiredWingMan]

When I think back to last spring when MyRoute-app exited beta and compare to today's product, what a huge improvement. I look forward to future versions but I wish we could fix some of the long outstanding issues. Ex. Battery usage, Navigation falling behind (possibly related) and general readability of the Here maps.