The web planner needs some love & development?

[Jack van Tilburg]

@Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

keep an eye on the forum for this

This topic received nine eleven upvotes within 24 hours. Especially from users who are not often visibly active on our forum. I think that is meaningful. There aren't many topics here that have received more upvotes. So I don't think it's very stylish to give such a vague answer.

[Corjan Meijerink]

@Peter-3b Thanks a lot for starting this post!

Yes, I agree with everything you say.
Do know that the planner gets quite a lot of love. However, there indeed is currently no massive development going on. The root cause it quite easy to explain: we are a small, very small company.

so I don't expect any formal follow-up by MRA

That is something I try to do at all times for the more relevant posts! Generic questions about MRA are perfectly answered by community members but the more technical questions will get a reply by myself and furthermore I will especially respond to these kind of posts.

Currently at MRA we are working on a major update for the app to improve the stability of especially CarPlay and Android Auto No, this is not related to the Routeplanner but choices have to be made. Once the app functions more stable (it does already fairly well!) across all platforms, this revenue stream can be made to invest in more Routeplanner features again.

All suggestions you've made are extremely high on our wish list too. Regarding all technical items on the wish list, I and Joost are your secret santa We got quite long lists and only two pair of hands each with only so much hours in a week. I can't imagine how Santa himself must feel after christmas!

So how can I correctly answer your question? Let me acknowledge the fact that the website will continue to be maintained and the requested features will be added. Can I yet indicate when? No, unfortunately not.
Besides adding features, we are aiming to do a complete rework of the Routeplanner due to increased complexity and above all deprecations of the current technical foundation / architecture. Just like a rework of the app, a similar approach for the website will be initiated this year. Regardless of that, the existing Routeplanner will be maintained and improved.

The web planner will definitely get the it deserves!
Are my answers to your satisfaction? I do hope so!

[Peter 3b]

@Corjan-Meijerink Hi Corjan, thanks for taking the time to give us some background and some insight into the high-level priorities and development schedule. At this moment I have nowhere else to go, so I will remain a somewhat grudgingly loyal user, hoping for better times.

[Corjan Meijerink]

@Peter-3b That's fine for me! As long as we realise that the Routeplanner we have already is a great tool and we accept choices have to be made I'm happy

I'll discuss the planning internally and aim to publish a statement about the path forwards.

[Drabslab]

@Jack-van-Tilburg said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

I really hope this post gets a lot of 'Upvotes'

I think it is about time to stop tinkering with the navigation app and do a last big effort on solving the bugs (battery drain?) and then concentrate on the planning tool.

@Corjan-Meijerink said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

publish a statement about the path forwards

Looking forward to read that statement but please, if you make a statement, be sure that you can stick to it. Another planning that is not realised will not increase credibility.

[Jack van Tilburg]

@Drabslab said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

I think it is about time to stop tinkering with the navigation app and do a last big effort on solving the bugs (battery drain?) and then concentrate on the planning tool

I would be happy to respond to this. But I am well aware that a critical opinion on this forum (about Next, for example) is quickly punished and that would not promote the good atmosphere here.
Corjan has responded and I will wait and see.
It is striking and very positive that many upvotes were given by mostly users who are not very active here.

[Stephen Rowland]

@Peter-3b Personally I'm reasonably happy with the route planner at present. I would prefer that the Nav app gets fully sorted with regard to battery drain and car play for when I use the car. I much prefer on my bike to use the app over and above any other nav app because it's the only one that shows correctly the shaping points and via points I create in the planner. However, as you say, there are areas in the planner that could be enhanced, mainly your suggestion regarding "showing and managing multiple routes in a folder".

The way I like to plan a tour is to start with the complete round trip with all cities etc so I can ensure it is achievable in X days and mileage is within reason. Then I plan separately each day based on that and tweak it depending on bookable hotels etc. It would be great for me if I could split my big rough round trip into sections representing each day, but then when I plan those days in detail it gets fed back into the "master" big round trip. Hope that makes sense!!

[Con Hennekens]

@Jack-van-Tilburg said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

But I am well aware that a critical opinion on this forum (about Next, for example) is quickly punished and that would not promote the good atmosphere here.

I think this is not very true. I think opinions are mostly welcomed and used as input beyond what I have ever seen on any other public software forum. That does not mean though that everyone has to agree with everything Especially your input, very generously given, is valued by me and many.

On topic and in general:
Yes I think we should not forget that the webplanner as it is, already is the best tool out there. Yes, a lot can be improved to make it even better. But of course it is best to finish the app first before drawing attention elsewhere. I agree that a feature freeze on the app would be good, because else it will never be finished. I think the deployment of the greatly overhauled CP/AA functionality will soon show how finished the app can be. Then developer attention will only be needed for bug fixing, and time will be available for the planner development.

I can't wait for the exciting things to come!

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@Jack-van-Tilburg

That's not true @Jack, everyone is allowed to share their opinion here.

This is approximately the same as when the MyRoute app was launched in 2013/2014, when there were 1001 questions/ideas to adjust the planner, and a lot of things were realized. And as Corjan indicates, MRA is a small company with 4 programmer hands. There are plenty of ideas and plans and the company makes its choices, which I think we should respect.
Let's just keep an eye on the forum and when the time comes, there will be an announcement on the forum.

[Don Stauffer]

@Stephen-Rowland I appreciated your comments on route planning. My process is very similar, starting with an overall route (7-10+days), identifying interesting roads and scenery. Then the hard work of breaking down individual day rides with reasonable timelines and a decent destination when the day is done. At the end, I often 're-build' the entire route by stringing together the daily routes for future planning purposes.

I agree with others that the Route Planner is the application that is most important to me. My Garmin loads the files I create in MRA, and I use it on the bike and in the car. I really don't use a phone or tablet for serious navigation. I realize that my situation may be different than the typical MRA customer. I live in a very large and diverse country, and my wife and I are both retired. So we enjoy long trips that require a lot of up-front planning.

But I'm content to wait for new feature development, The product continues to evolve. It was better than any of the alternatives that I tried back when I decided to become a lifetime member. I do look forward to more features in the Route Planner. I've suggested a few, and gotten positive responses from the team. You only get that level of interaction from a small, dedicated company. I feel lucky to be their customer!

[Drabslab]

Yes I think we should not forget that the webplanner as it is, already is the best tool out there.

Indeed!

MRA is a small company with 4 programmer hands.

pffff, they ony need to type faster

but let us please give them the time to analyse well. That eventually leads to better development and less bugs.

I agree that a feature freeze on the app would be good, because else it will never be finished.

I can only agree to this and I think that several people here notice a kind of feature creep leading to the typical never ending programming story.

Then developer attention will only be needed for bug fixing,

you are very optimistic here. I was once involved in "correcting a situation" and discovered that nothing was progressing because the developers spent 90% (not a typing mistake) on correcting bugs.

and time will be available for the planner development.

I see that slightly different.

I agree that planner and navigator are two distinct animals with their own purpose and scope, and overlap between the two should too a large extend be avoided.

However, it makes no sense to e.g. improve the planners POI handling, and not making sure immediately (in the same sprint or how is this called these days) that the navigator can exploit these new planning features.

Corjan has responded and I will wait and see.

Me too

[RetiredWingMan]

When I think back to last spring when MyRoute-app exited beta and compare to today's product, what a huge improvement. I look forward to future versions but I wish we could fix some of the long outstanding issues. Ex. Battery usage, Navigation falling behind (possibly related) and general readability of the Here maps.

[Drabslab]

@Doug-Robinson

Very true, and the outstanding issues are beyond the direct influence of MRA. That does not make it less annoying but we have to put responsibility where it belongs.

[Stephen Rowland]

@Don-Stauffer I like and respect your reply. MRA was certainly the best Route Planner I tried before committing to a lifetime gold membership

[Con Hennekens]

@Drabslab said in The web planner needs some love & development?:

I was once involved in "correcting a situation" and discovered that nothing was progressing because the developers spent 90% (not a typing mistake) on correcting bugs.

You would think if 90% of capacity is spent on bugs, that that would lead to less bugs to spent capacity on...

[richtea999]

Just to add my 2 pennies:

• the planner is what brought me here
• the nav app is what keeps me completely hooked

I need both.

But I don't need perfection from the planner. It works well enough for nearly all my uses. I've not found anything close to beating it. So that's a 9.5/10 stars from me.

I do need near-perfection from the nav app. It's what's happening live on the road, and it's not only disconcerting when it doesn't behave, but it can take the shine off a ride for a few minutes whilst you stop (with mates in tow, questioning your sanity) and work out what's happened. Right now it's a 8/10 stars for me, and thus needs the main focus for, say, another 2-3 months.

Considering the app has only been live for 9 months, and it's complexity and integration, it's bloody good.

We just need HERE to pull their finger out and fix the battery drain, plus some online/offline stability, and that will be an easy 9.5/10 for the app.

[Drabslab]

@Con-Hennekens indeed, but they managed to create a new bug for more or less every bug they solved (consequence of totally wrong internal organization, lack of testing ...) so they kept busy chasing their own tail, leading to some drastic management interference, and me be awarded the very "interesting" job of keeping the angry customers at bay and solving the issues.

[Con Hennekens]

@Drabslab, That's a thankful job... I hope you give the MRA team a bit more credit

[Brian McG]

Hi @Peter-3b
I do agree with a lot of what you are saying,
I also find the 200 waypoint limit very frustrating when trying to plan multi-day trips.

Often I plan/ride 500 mile (800km) routes on small non-motorway roads & will have 150+ waypoints for a day, so for a multi-day trip of 10-16 days I can be looking at a trip with several thousand points.

For those that say only 50 points are sufficient for 1 day, that is your choice/preference, some of us prefer a lot more points as we plan far more detailed routes.
IMO there should be no limit on the number of points unless there is a very sound technical reason to impose such a limit, like when importing tracks with 10's or 100's of thousands of points.

You can of course put a bunch of day-trips in a folder and if you don't mind the work (add route -> add route -> add route...)

I agree the "> add route > add route" is painful especially as this action is not cached / saved & if you exit the route you have to go back & "> add route > add route" all over again.
I get round this by having multiple browser tabs open for MRA but this sometimes leads to instabilities in the browser/mra site.

show them at the same time, but that's about as far as MRA goes in supporting multi-day trips.

MRA does allow for prepend / appending the shown routes using the + symbol in the Routes tab after a route has been added.

Unfortunately with detailed routes you soon hit the 200 point limit when you append multiple days. Trying to get an overview of your whole trip & its total mileage is not possible when MRA then randomly removes points.
And yes I want to know the total mileage of a trip as tyre ware & maintenance stops should be planned ( & yes again a new tyre is fitted before a trip)

I understand MRA is a small team & only so much can be done & only so fast, the above is just some pain points I experience with the planner & which I work around.
For planning group trips with multiple riders all using different navigation systems, TomTom, Garmin, MRA, Calimoto...... there is no other app/planner that comes close to being able to successfully create & transfer a route to each of the group & for them then to be able to navigate the days ride.

[Jack van Tilburg]

I am a bit surprised at the number of required route points mentioned here.
I am going to the North Cape this summer and have now planned a route to the north and one to the south. Together more than 6000 kilometers. But no more than 110 waypoints. And that includes shaping points and points along the way for sightseeing and/or overnight stays.
And yes.....I also have day trips in Europe that mainly take very small roads where extra waypoints are needed to carry out the chosen route exactly as I wish. But even there I never reach the number of 100 route points.