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Route ignores obvious left turn

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved [Web] Problems, Bugs and other Issues
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  • twinfanundefined twinfan

    Answered this last question by creating an OSM account and posting a note at that location.

    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
    Martin Wilcke
    wrote on last edited by
    #7

    @twinfan said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

    posting a note at that location.

    What exactly do you mean by that?

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • twinfanundefined Offline
      twinfanundefined Offline
      twinfan
      wrote on last edited by
      #8

      OSM provides for problem reporting and map fixes. I made this note:

      alt text

      Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • twinfanundefined twinfan

        OSM provides for problem reporting and map fixes. I made this note:

        alt text

        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
        Martin Wilcke
        wrote on last edited by
        #9

        @twinfan said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

        OSM provides for problem reporting and map fixes.

        I know. But what exactly causes the problem, in your opinion, and what should be changed or corrected?
        As mentioned above, other planners based on OSM allow a left turn, so it's not an OSM Map issue. Do you disagree?

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        • twinfanundefined Offline
          twinfanundefined Offline
          twinfan
          wrote on last edited by
          #10

          @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

          I know. But what exactly causes the problem, in your opinion, and what should be changed or corrected?
          As mentioned above, other planners based on OSM allow a left turn, so it's not an OSM Map issue. Do you disagree?

          From what I read in the earlier posts the HERE and TomTom maps route correctly when selected. So does the Garmin City Navigator North America NT 2025.2 map on my Zumo XT. I think it is a problem with the OSM map but I have no idea how one would fix it.

          Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • twinfanundefined twinfan

            @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

            I know. But what exactly causes the problem, in your opinion, and what should be changed or corrected?
            As mentioned above, other planners based on OSM allow a left turn, so it's not an OSM Map issue. Do you disagree?

            From what I read in the earlier posts the HERE and TomTom maps route correctly when selected. So does the Garmin City Navigator North America NT 2025.2 map on my Zumo XT. I think it is a problem with the OSM map but I have no idea how one would fix it.

            Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
            Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
            Martin Wilcke
            wrote on last edited by
            #11

            @twinfan said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

            I think it is a problem with the OSM map but I have no idea how one would fix it.

            I have taken a closer look at this spot.

            The issue is probably caused by an extra barrier:lift_gate entry in addition to the railway:level_crossing. In my opinion, this is wrong.

            I've added this to your comment, let's see if a mapper with local knowledge makes a change there.

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            • twinfanundefined Offline
              twinfanundefined Offline
              twinfan
              wrote on last edited by
              #12

              Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke . I was contemplating learning more about OSM editing but it is very complex and I wouldn't want to make things worse.

              Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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              • twinfanundefined Offline
                twinfanundefined Offline
                twinfan
                wrote on last edited by
                #13

                I also thought it odd that there were signals shown in only three of the four corners but, then again, I don't understand the mapping "language."

                ![alt text](e15f6f5e-9fe8-4731-a067-62de0d06c9ae-image.png image url)

                Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                • twinfanundefined twinfan

                  I also thought it odd that there were signals shown in only three of the four corners but, then again, I don't understand the mapping "language."

                  ![alt text](e15f6f5e-9fe8-4731-a067-62de0d06c9ae-image.png image url)

                  Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                  Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                  Martin Wilcke
                  wrote on last edited by Martin Wilcke
                  #14

                  @twinfan said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                  I don't understand the mapping "language."

                  Here is an overview of all valid keys, their values, meaning and examples:

                  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_features

                  Search for railway:level_crossing and barrier:lift_gate; these are the key types related to this issue.

                  It is worth familiarising yourself with the different categories because there is an extra bonus: you can search for OSM POIs in a given area, export them as GPX and import them into MRA. This way, you can create your own POI libraries in MRA. We have discussed an example ("castles in the UK") here:

                  https://forum.myrouteapp.com/post/58690

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                  • twinfanundefined twinfan

                    Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke . I was contemplating learning more about OSM editing but it is very complex and I wouldn't want to make things worse.

                    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                    Martin Wilcke
                    wrote on last edited by Martin Wilcke
                    #15

                    @twinfan

                    According to Google Street View, there is a railway crossing with two half barrier arms but no extra lift gate (this is the mapping error):

                    OSM-3.jpg

                    So, I recommend making the following changes (for both directions):

                    • Delete the lift gate barrier:

                    OSM-4.jpg

                    Add the "two-half barrier arm" attribute to the railway crossing:

                    OSM-5.jpg

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                    • twinfanundefined Offline
                      twinfanundefined Offline
                      twinfan
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #16

                      Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke, I will give it a try. I use that intersection regularly, today in fact.

                      Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • twinfanundefined Offline
                        twinfanundefined Offline
                        twinfan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #17

                        I made your recommended changes and checked the box asking for a review from an experience mapper, just in case. I also found another intersection about one mile earlier in the route that had a similar condition and revised it. This explains how MRA chose the route it did on my initial try. Thank you again for your guidance. I enjoyed learning about OSM!
                        Tom

                        Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        -1
                        • twinfanundefined twinfan

                          Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke, I will give it a try. I use that intersection regularly, today in fact.

                          Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                          Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                          Martin Wilcke
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #18

                          @twinfan

                          https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/4613925

                          Cool! 👍

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • twinfanundefined twinfan

                            I made your recommended changes and checked the box asking for a review from an experience mapper, just in case. I also found another intersection about one mile earlier in the route that had a similar condition and revised it. This explains how MRA chose the route it did on my initial try. Thank you again for your guidance. I enjoyed learning about OSM!
                            Tom

                            Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                            Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                            Martin Wilcke
                            wrote last edited by
                            #19

                            @twinfan
                            It took a loooooong time (probably due to the refresh cycle of the OSM server used by MRA), but it finally works now!

                            left turn.jpg

                            Brian McGundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • twinfanundefined Offline
                              twinfanundefined Offline
                              twinfan
                              wrote last edited by
                              #20

                              @Martin-Wilcke, thanks for checking and nice to see it worked!

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Martin Wilckeundefined Martin Wilcke

                                @twinfan
                                It took a loooooong time (probably due to the refresh cycle of the OSM server used by MRA), but it finally works now!

                                left turn.jpg

                                Brian McGundefined Online
                                Brian McGundefined Online
                                Brian McG
                                wrote last edited by
                                #21

                                @Martin-Wilcke the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                                an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                                As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,
                                it can lag by many many months as you have seen.

                                Here map data can take from a few days to several weeks to update
                                MRA update their Here data a lot more regularly, I think with every MRA update

                                BlackView BV7100, Android 12
                                Normaly navigate Routes in Offline mode with Offline Maps

                                Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Brian McGundefined Brian McG

                                  @Martin-Wilcke the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                                  an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                                  As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,
                                  it can lag by many many months as you have seen.

                                  Here map data can take from a few days to several weeks to update
                                  MRA update their Here data a lot more regularly, I think with every MRA update

                                  Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                  Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                  Martin Wilcke
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #22

                                  @Brian-McG said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                                  the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                                  an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                                  I know. With other apps, this change was visible within a few days.

                                  As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,

                                  That's what I mean by

                                  the OSM server used by MRA

                                  Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                                  Brian McGundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Martin Wilckeundefined Martin Wilcke

                                    @Brian-McG said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                                    the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                                    an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                                    I know. With other apps, this change was visible within a few days.

                                    As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,

                                    That's what I mean by

                                    the OSM server used by MRA

                                    Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                                    Brian McGundefined Online
                                    Brian McGundefined Online
                                    Brian McG
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #23

                                    @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                                    Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                                    Apologies if I misinterpreted your previous post, terminology often does not translate well.

                                    e.g. for me the term "mirror" implies the same data is available in 2 or multiple locations at similar times.
                                    So I would not use "mirror" regarding MRA's OSM data as it is out of date for a considerable amount of time compared to the data available from OSM. It is why I used the term "snapshot".

                                    Sorry, I do not know where or how MRA host / store their data, I would just be guessing.
                                    Maybe someone else has the answer?

                                    BlackView BV7100, Android 12
                                    Normaly navigate Routes in Offline mode with Offline Maps

                                    Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Brian McGundefined Brian McG

                                      @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                                      Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                                      Apologies if I misinterpreted your previous post, terminology often does not translate well.

                                      e.g. for me the term "mirror" implies the same data is available in 2 or multiple locations at similar times.
                                      So I would not use "mirror" regarding MRA's OSM data as it is out of date for a considerable amount of time compared to the data available from OSM. It is why I used the term "snapshot".

                                      Sorry, I do not know where or how MRA host / store their data, I would just be guessing.
                                      Maybe someone else has the answer?

                                      Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                      Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                      Martin Wilcke
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #24

                                      @Brian-McG

                                      If we're being precise, we're not talking about the map data that is displayed, but rather about the data used for routing.

                                      I assumed that MRA uses a service (i.e. a REST API) that takes over the routing and thus also accesses a server on which the routing data is stored.

                                      If MRA stores the routing data on its server (yes, as a snapshot), then the developers must also have implemented a routing engine (presumably based on one of the available frameworks).

                                      Regardless of how it is technically implemented, the OSM data is obviously updated in long cycles. However, we should bear in mind that MRA focuses on HERE data, which is why the time lag in OSM data is not so important in my view.

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