GPX Versions 1.1 vs 1.2 for Garmin Visually Explained
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I'm an intermediate level user of Basecamp (BC). I have riding friends who are die hard BC people, so when I lead routes with them, I still use BC to create routes for their comfort, and max flexibility to make alterations as they see fit.
I prefer the MRA Web Routplanner. For me it's more intuitive and easier to make major modifications to routes after the fact. Beyond that I love the ability to work with different maps and overlays. But a few of my friends are wizards with BC and can perform magic with routing very quick. I'm not going to pass judgement on anyone who chooses to stay with BC for whatever reasons they have.
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I haven't found any clear explanation that made sense to me regarding the differences and pros and cons of the gpx 1.1 and 1.2 export formats. I'll outline what I have found after hours of testing and hopefully it will be of some help.
I'll start off with the basics for anyone that's totally new to .gpx files to lay the groundwork, then I'll include screenshot examples that clearly show the differences. I know the first part of this will be unnecessary for most of you, but for any new users I think it will be helpful.
THE BASICS
Bear in mind these examples are for the Garmin XT series of GPS devices. 1.2 may or may not work the same on other gps units (it probably doesn't) but even so the limitations of the 1.1 format will be the same regardless of what type of unit that you may have and it's important know how to work around them.
A .gpx file is a simple text file. You can open it with any text editor and inspect it. The file basically has three sections... 1) the header, 2) the route information, and 3) the track information.
The header section tells the GPS the general information about the file, the route section gives the GPS the information that it needs to create the turn-by-turn route when it imports the .gpx file, and the track is simple gps latitude and longitude coordinates (breadcrumbs) that form a simple path. A track doesn't know if it's on-road or off-road, or in the middle of a lake or the ocean. It's simply a series of coordinates (many times thousands of them in a file).
In MRA, or pretty much any route creation program, you create two basic elements that will form the route and track. You have waypoint (aka via points, but we'll just ) and shaping points. Waypoint you must go to (either a stop or pass through it) unless you purposely choose to skip it, and shaping points are just that, their purpose is to solely shape the route. Here's an example of a simple route in MRA showing 3 waypoints (Start, Finish and a gas stop) and 17 shaping points that (try to) force the route to go where I wanted it to.
When you export the route (save as and upload) to your GPS, whether it's in 1.1 or 1.2 format, the GPS takes the .gpx file, reads it and creates a route based on the information in the route section apply its own logic (shortest route, fastest route, etc) and that's the route that you see on your GPS. The track is also imported from the .gpx file, and it should always look exactly the same on your GPS as the route looked in MRA.
SO, ENOUGH OF THE BASICS... WHAT'S THE PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE IN THE GPX 1.1 AND 1.2 FORMATS???
The primary difference between the two formats is quite simple, but the difference in now they create a route is significant! Both formats are basically the same except for what's in the Routes section, but this is a BIG difference.
1.1 Route
In our example MRA screenshot above, when the route is exported in (saved as) gpx 1.1 format it contains the 3 waypoints and the 17 shaping points. When the 1.1 file is imported into the Garmin XT GPS, the GPS begins at the first waypoint, then finds the shortest or fastest route (depending on your navigation settings) to shaping point #1, then to shaping point #2 until it gets to the gas stop waypoint (#10), then it continues by finding the shortest or fastest route to the next shaping point (#11 in our example) and so on until it reaches the next waypoint (which, in our case is the end of the route.1.2 Route
When the MRA route is exported in (saved as) .gpx 1.2 format the route section DOES NOT include any shaping points! Instead, it includes gps latitude and longitude coordinates in its route section just like those that are included in its track section. When the gpx 1.2 file is imported into the Garmin XT GPS, it starts at the beginning waypoint, then follows the GPS latitude and longitude coordinates to the gas stop waypoint (#10) then it continues following the GPS coordinates to the next waypoint (the end of the route in our simple example).Summary
Finally!
The 1.1 format contains route shaping points that the Garmin XT GPS uses when it creates its route based on the criteria in its navigation settings, and the 1.2 format uses route gps coordinates (just like a track) that isn't affected by the Garmin's route creation logic when the route is created.So, What Does This Look Like VISUALLY?
Ok, here's a section of the route above shown in a screenshot from MRA. As you can see the route I planned goes down Evans Road until it meets Crab Creek Road.
So I exported this route in 1.1 format and imported into my Garmin XT3 and my navigation setting was set to "Fastest". The XT decided that "Fastest" (and it did the same when I set it to "Shortest") way between to take Hidden Lake Road instead (purple line) even though the track clearly showed that I intended to go down Evans Road (you can show the track and route simultaneously with the XT3 which I did here for clarity).
Next, I exported this EXACT same route from MRA in gpx 1.2 format and imported it into my Garmin XT3. Notice two important things - the route followed what I was seeing in MRA, and there are NO shaping points.
While this is a very small example of what happens during the Garmin's route creation with a gpx 1.1 file, on a large, complex route the Garmin can make a LOT of unintended changes. I have wound up on nasty gravel roads on a Goldwing, down back alleys, missed curvy sections that I wanted to ride, etc. etc. because of this issue.
I'm exclusively using the gpx 1.2 format using the "Save As" feature and uploading the file manually to my XT3 using a USB cable as I described in detail earlier today in this post.
So What if My GPS Doesn't Support the 1.2 Format?
Use a LOT of shaping points to force the GPS not to "cut corners". Then export it (or "save as") in the 1.1 format and import it into your GPS. Show the route and the track simultaneously (you'll have to figure out how do this on your own.... your owner's manual is a good place to start).
You can normally spot the differences in the route and track (which was your intended route) fairly easily by looking for where their paths diverge. This is much easier if you can set your track to a color that's completely different from your route color.
You can also compare the mileage shown for the route in your GPS and MRA and they should be very close.
If you see any issues, go back into MRA and add shaping points to fix the problem(s). Delete the route and track from your GPS, export it again from MRA then import it into your GPS and check it again. It may take several tries if you want your GPS route and the route that you see in MRA to match exactly.
Steve
p.s. Here's a link to the example MRA route that I used above. Ignore the 1.1 in the filename as I had 2 identical MRA routes, on with a 1 in the filename and 1 with a 2 just so that I could test quickly and tell them apart. This file can be exported as gpx 1.1 or 1.2 to achieve the same results as I did above.
This post is deleted! -
Road Closures.
I’m not sure when I’ll get to test this but has anyone found out what happens to a GPX1.2 route when you come across one? That would be with ‘Traffic’ enabled. I’m not sure whether auto-recalculate would make any difference here or not.
I have Traffic enabled but not on auto re-route so I just get the info. Road closures are independent of that setting though and divert anyway. Historically, on older Zumos, a closure would catastrophically destroy a route but with the XT2 and GPX1.1, a nice route around it was what I have experienced.
Would a road closure diversion trigger a full route recalculation? Would Traffic need to be disabled to avoid that?
I did hazard a guess and it was 50/50 (aka I don’t know).
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Good question. I honestly don't know as well. The problem also is that there's no guarantee that the results are going to be the same between the XT, XT2, XT3 or any of the previous units!
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When I save a route created in My Route planner website using shape points and save it as 1.2 the route appears on my routes page as only a route and not a route and track. Is this normal?
@Simon-James-Hancock Yes. The route that shows in MRA will also be your track when it's exported.
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I thought so, I just wanted to make sure.
Again I want to thank everyone who has helped. -
I thought so, I just wanted to make sure.
Again I want to thank everyone who has helped.@Simon-James-Hancock You're very welcome. Everyone has been extremely helpful in this thread and I'm grateful as well!
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Just to summarize what I have learned.
Make a route in MRA with Here map using shape points.
Making sure to have the first point when leaving a bit further down the road to make sure that the route starts.
Widen the and colour the track with the garmin settings.
Save as 1.2
Question: When using shaping points and I place one next to a petrol station and name it Petrol and add a symbol of a petrol station, will it appear and can I select it when navigating or do I have to make a via point? -
@simon-james-hancock I think with your petrol station, the symbol you have added on MRA will only appear there and not on your Zumo. If you want a symbol on the Zumo, you can add a POI on MRA and that will appear - but it will only show as a flag and with the name you have given it (default is POI) so further editing is required on the Zumo if you want to see a petrol pump. If you want a mileage and/or time countdown to the petrol station, change the shaping point to a via point which you can name and that will be retained on the Zumo (also as a flag).
Just to recap, shaping points will not show on your Zumo using GPX1.2 but via points will.
I'm happy to be corrected and to learn if there is a different way.
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Has anyone tried the trip repair tool by FrankB
Here is the link
https://www.javawa.nl/triprepair.html -
Just to summarize what I have learned.
Make a route in MRA with Here map using shape points.
Making sure to have the first point when leaving a bit further down the road to make sure that the route starts.
Widen the and colour the track with the garmin settings.
Save as 1.2
Question: When using shaping points and I place one next to a petrol station and name it Petrol and add a symbol of a petrol station, will it appear and can I select it when navigating or do I have to make a via point?@Simon-James-Hancock You would have to make it a via point. Shaping points simply shape the route. There are no shaping points in the route section of a 1.2 .gpx file. There are just gpx lat/lon coordinates.
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Has anyone tried the trip repair tool by FrankB
Here is the link
https://www.javawa.nl/triprepair.htmlTrip Manager by FrankB is brilliant. Too much to go into detail here. Best bet is to go to https://zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=3150 which has a full discussion on the features, functions, links, documentation etc. for Trip Manager.
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Just to summarize what I have learned.
Make a route in MRA with Here map using shape points.
Making sure to have the first point when leaving a bit further down the road to make sure that the route starts.
Widen the and colour the track with the garmin settings.
Save as 1.2
Question: When using shaping points and I place one next to a petrol station and name it Petrol and add a symbol of a petrol station, will it appear and can I select it when navigating or do I have to make a via point?Just to summarize what I have learned.
Make a route in MRA with Here map using shape points.
Making sure to have the first point when leaving a bit further down the road to make sure that the route starts.
Widen the and colour the track with the garmin settings.
Save as 1.2
Question: When using shaping points and I place one next to a petrol station and name it Petrol and add a symbol of a petrol station, will it appear and can I select it when navigating or do I have to make a via point?There is no specific need for using HERE as the base map when creating a GPX. It doesn't matter at all for 1.2, and if you have enough shaping points, it shouldn't make a difference using 1.1.
HERE can be troublesome unless you actually need it for the NN app, where it's required. I've been using OSM exclusively for some time now, and it's a solid choice.
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Just to summarize what I have learned.
Make a route in MRA with Here map using shape points.
Making sure to have the first point when leaving a bit further down the road to make sure that the route starts.
Widen the and colour the track with the garmin settings.
Save as 1.2
Question: When using shaping points and I place one next to a petrol station and name it Petrol and add a symbol of a petrol station, will it appear and can I select it when navigating or do I have to make a via point?There is no specific need for using HERE as the base map when creating a GPX. It doesn't matter at all for 1.2, and if you have enough shaping points, it shouldn't make a difference using 1.1.
HERE can be troublesome unless you actually need it for the NN app, where it's required. I've been using OSM exclusively for some time now, and it's a solid choice.
There is no specific need for using HERE as the base map when creating a GPX. It doesn't matter at all for 1.2, and if you have enough shaping points, it shouldn't make a difference using 1.1.
That's not true. If you want to use the 1.2 file Here map is mandatory.
Since there is quite a difference between Here and TomTom you will certainly have a bad route using OSM of TomTom for you planning.
On top of that all Garmin systems are Here basedHonda Goldwing GL1500,
Honda Silverwing GL 650
DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
Garmin XT sold
Samsung S24FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car -
There is no specific need for using HERE as the base map when creating a GPX. It doesn't matter at all for 1.2, and if you have enough shaping points, it shouldn't make a difference using 1.1.
That's not true. If you want to use the 1.2 file Here map is mandatory.
Since there is quite a difference between Here and TomTom you will certainly have a bad route using OSM of TomTom for you planning.
On top of that all Garmin systems are Here based@Marinus-van-Deudekom Interesting. Here is an OSM route I just put together:
https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/14123994
I exported this GPX in 1.2 format. I then Imported the 1.2 route into my Garmin XT3. No problems. I verified that the route in the XT3 exactly mirrored the original MRA Routplanner route in every way. To no surprise, an exact match.
Finally, I started the route on my XT3. No issues whasoever.
The only difference between base maps how they calculate in their respective environments. If you have enough shaping points defined, any map can be imported into a Garmin device and recalculate as you into intend.
Please explain how you came to your conclusions.
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As I understand it if I make it a via point I will have to stop there otherwise will be rerouted back.
I just want to add the location of petrol stations for referance when I might need them along the route.@Simon-James-Hancock Good question. When you add a via point your don't have to stop there, you just have to go past that position.
If you add the petrol stations along your route where you may want to stop and you just ride past them you'll be fine. If you do get off of your route the Garmin will try to route you back to them, and as we've discussed, when you skip the via point then the Garmin recalculates your route based on it's own logic and not your shaping points.
If you want to follow your original route, your only option at that point is stop the route, restart it and select "Closest Entry Point" and it will put you back on your route past the petrol station via point that you bypassed and it will preserve your original route.
I typically only put via points for petrol (gas over here) stations in my route if they're going to be scarce where I'm going to be so I rarely skip them. Otherwise for me they're more hassle than what they're worth.
There are other workarounds using Points of Interest but frankly they're way more trouble than what they're worth. The MRA app doesn't have this (or other) limitation but that an entirely different conversation!
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As I understand it if I make it a via point I will have to stop there otherwise will be rerouted back.
I just want to add the location of petrol stations for referance when I might need them along the route.@Simon-James-Hancock said:
I just want to add the location of petrol stations for referance when I might need them along the route.As I previously mentioned, try placing a POI on MRA. You can give it a petrol pump symbol and call it Fuel. No need for a via point if you don't need to be prompted and it will display on your Zumo.
Edit: I've just read your post @steve-jarrell - I use MRA POIs regularly and find them really useful. Easy to place and a visual reminder on the Zumo map. And yes you're right, so long as you ride through them, a via point will not turn you back.@john-s-parry @marinus-van-deudekom I've found 1.2 to be way more forgiving of route point placement when calculating. And I would have it the other way round - HERE is probably more necessary using 1.1 when poor route point placement often results in "cannot calculate the route".
My experience anyway.
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@Simon-James-Hancock said:
I just want to add the location of petrol stations for referance when I might need them along the route.As I previously mentioned, try placing a POI on MRA. You can give it a petrol pump symbol and call it Fuel. No need for a via point if you don't need to be prompted and it will display on your Zumo.
Edit: I've just read your post @steve-jarrell - I use MRA POIs regularly and find them really useful. Easy to place and a visual reminder on the Zumo map. And yes you're right, so long as you ride through them, a via point will not turn you back.@john-s-parry @marinus-van-deudekom I've found 1.2 to be way more forgiving of route point placement when calculating. And I would have it the other way round - HERE is probably more necessary using 1.1 when poor route point placement often results in "cannot calculate the route".
My experience anyway.
I've found 1.2 to be way more forgiving of route point placement when calculating. And I would have it the other way round - HERE is probably more necessary using 1.1 when poor route point placement often results in "cannot calculate the route".
@carl-lee Im not sure I understand the above. Why is HERE any more necessary than OSM or TomTom when using 1.1 ??
Poor route point placement is going to be a problem regardless of underlying base map. Again, I want to understand why HERE in particular is being inserted into the discussion.
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