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  4. STILL having issues w/ my Zumo XT not following the route

STILL having issues w/ my Zumo XT not following the route

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  • Martin Wilckeundefined Martin Wilcke

    @Mzokk

    😊

    Due to weather conditions, I haven't had a chance to check out MRAs new/enhanced "navigate route as a track" feature in reality so far - but from my understanding, this could be the perfect way to navigate the route exactly as planned (like a track) and having just VIAs visible (similar to GPX 1.2 on an XT) but with the option to activate automatic re-calculation. It mainly depends on the algorithm that leads back to the track.

    Do you have any experience with this feature already?

    Mzokkundefined Offline
    Mzokkundefined Offline
    Mzokk
    wrote on last edited by
    #14

    @Martin-Wilcke No Martin I haven't yet tried the navigate route as Track so far. But I have been experimenting for the past 18 months this a phone and my Africa twin Android Auto with a view to relegating the Zumo to a back up. We are nearly there I think. Testing looks silly though

    570472f2-0dcc-492f-b2a5-0394438592c0-IMG_20240814_123614993_HDR.jpg

    Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Greenhamundefined Greenham

      @Marinus-van-Deudekom
      First thank you all who have tried to help me. It's slowly making sense thanks to you guys. I now understand the difference between planning and overlay maps.

      I now only use HERE, for planning then compare my work/route with Tom Tom and OSM.

      What is still unclear is exporting my route via 1.2gpx and I decide to skip a waypoint. All the following shaping points seem to be ignored and zumo defaults to the default routing method within the GPS (fastest, shortest etc) using the few waypoints that still haven't been passed/used.

      Until I understand this behavior I'm lost.

      Again I have recalculation off

      ![alt text](image url20250105_075332.jpg )

      The key seems to be between 1.1gpx vs 1.2gpx

      Should I just be expecting via 1.1 instead of 1.2gpx which is what I have always used

      Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
      Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
      Martin Wilcke
      wrote on last edited by
      #15

      @Greenham

      When using GPX 1.2, avoiding recalculation is key as a recalc will affect not just the section to the next VIA but the complete route!
      Unfortunately, skipping a VIA will force a recalculation. Most of the time, you will pass all VIAs as planned. If you need to skip a VIA for any reason, the only way I know (on an XT) is as mentioned above:

      Stop navigating the current route, find your way back (that's where having the track displayed additional to the route can help), and if you get back on track (important!), start navigating your original route again - it will start from your current position.

      Avoiding recalculation is the significant downside of using GPX 1.2. If this doesn't match your preferences, GPX 1.1 is probably a better choice.

      1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • Greenhamundefined Greenham

        @Mzokk
        How do you get the track to display from the zumo?

        I have several 1.2gpx routes currently loaded on my zumo, but don't see the option to display track.

        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
        Martin Wilcke
        wrote on last edited by
        #16

        @Greenham
        trackXT.jpg

        (picked from jfheath's excellent dokumentation)

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        • Mzokkundefined Mzokk

          @Martin-Wilcke No Martin I haven't yet tried the navigate route as Track so far. But I have been experimenting for the past 18 months this a phone and my Africa twin Android Auto with a view to relegating the Zumo to a back up. We are nearly there I think. Testing looks silly though

          570472f2-0dcc-492f-b2a5-0394438592c0-IMG_20240814_123614993_HDR.jpg

          Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
          Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
          Martin Wilcke
          wrote on last edited by
          #17

          @Mzokk said in STILL having issues w/ my Zumo XT not following the route:

          Testing looks silly though

          This could be me! 😀

          I switched from Garmin to MRA NN a year ago and never looked back. If the new "route as track" feature works as expected, it's a killer.

          In addition to the software, the device is also an issue. I tried a few smartphone solutions (it didn't convince me), then a Carpe Iter (too big) and I'm now with a DMD2 T665. Perfect. Yes, it's expensive, but "buy once, cry once", and you're immediately rid of all the annoying issues (e.g. power draining).

          1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • Greenhamundefined Greenham

            @Marinus-van-Deudekom
            First thank you all who have tried to help me. It's slowly making sense thanks to you guys. I now understand the difference between planning and overlay maps.

            I now only use HERE, for planning then compare my work/route with Tom Tom and OSM.

            What is still unclear is exporting my route via 1.2gpx and I decide to skip a waypoint. All the following shaping points seem to be ignored and zumo defaults to the default routing method within the GPS (fastest, shortest etc) using the few waypoints that still haven't been passed/used.

            Until I understand this behavior I'm lost.

            Again I have recalculation off

            ![alt text](image url20250105_075332.jpg )

            The key seems to be between 1.1gpx vs 1.2gpx

            Should I just be expecting via 1.1 instead of 1.2gpx which is what I have always used

            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
            RouteXpert
            wrote on last edited by
            #18

            @Greenham said in STILL having issues w/ my Zumo XT not following the route:

            @Marinus-van-Deudekom
            First thank you all who have tried to help me. It's slowly making sense thanks to you guys. I now understand the difference between planning and overlay maps.

            I now only use HERE, for planning then compare my work/route with Tom Tom and OSM.

            What is still unclear is exporting my route via 1.2gpx and I decide to skip a waypoint. All the following shaping points seem to be ignored and zumo defaults to the default routing method within the GPS (fastest, shortest etc) using the few waypoints that still haven't been passed/used.

            Until I understand this behavior I'm lost.

            Again I have recalculation off

            ![alt text](image url20250105_075332.jpg )

            The key seems to be between 1.1gpx vs 1.2gpx

            Should I just be expecting via 1.1 instead of 1.2gpx which is what I have always used

            Thas is because: the gpx 1.2, which is a route-track with via points. So no shaping points in the gpx file

            Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
            Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

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            0
            • Greenhamundefined Greenham

              @Martin-Wilcke

              I do not have experience aside from watching Serg do a video on it. Didn't completely understand what they were saying.

              Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
              Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
              Marinus van Deudekom
              Valued contributor
              wrote on last edited by
              #19

              @Greenham of you're using a 1.2 and you want to skip a viapoint (there are no shaping points in a 1.2) navigate to the displayed track after the skipped viapoint and then press skip waypoint om your XT. It will then keep on the route
              Have you found out how to display the track under the route?

              Honda Goldwing GL1500,
              Honda Silverwing GL 650
              DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
              Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
              Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

              Martin Wilckeundefined Greenhamundefined 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • Marinus van Deudekomundefined Marinus van Deudekom

                @Greenham of you're using a 1.2 and you want to skip a viapoint (there are no shaping points in a 1.2) navigate to the displayed track after the skipped viapoint and then press skip waypoint om your XT. It will then keep on the route
                Have you found out how to display the track under the route?

                Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                Martin Wilcke
                wrote on last edited by
                #20

                @Marinus-van-Deudekom said in STILL having issues w/ my Zumo XT not following the route:

                then press skip waypoint om your XT. It will then keep on the route

                I don't know what you mean with "keep on the route", but skipping a VIA will force a recalculation, which may lead to a different result.

                Marinus van Deudekomundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • Martin Wilckeundefined Martin Wilcke

                  @Marinus-van-Deudekom said in STILL having issues w/ my Zumo XT not following the route:

                  then press skip waypoint om your XT. It will then keep on the route

                  I don't know what you mean with "keep on the route", but skipping a VIA will force a recalculation, which may lead to a different result.

                  Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                  Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                  Marinus van Deudekom
                  Valued contributor
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #21

                  @Martin-Wilcke of you do that after the skipped viapoint but ON the route the XT will not recalculate and stay on the route. But make shure you do this exactly like I said

                  Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                  Honda Silverwing GL 650
                  DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                  Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                  Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                  Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Marinus van Deudekomundefined Marinus van Deudekom

                    @Martin-Wilcke of you do that after the skipped viapoint but ON the route the XT will not recalculate and stay on the route. But make shure you do this exactly like I said

                    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                    Martin Wilcke
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #22

                    @Marinus-van-Deudekom
                    OK - I learned something new!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                      I am still having issues with my Zumo XT NOT following the route designed in MRA completely/correctly. I have added a bunch more shaping points, used the export to 1.2 gpx. It didn't take long before it routed me down a DEAD END ROAD.... I knew the area and just drove by it. I then took another road, thus passing a WAYPOINT. I "skipped" the waypoint via Zumo, it then said it was recalculating.

                      From that point on, it seemed to ignore any shaping points and followed a recalculated fastest route using the few WAYPOINTS left from there on. The route was useless from then on... ( it routed me 16miles down an interstate until the next WAYPOINT) I don't ever route via interstates.

                      Since getting back:

                      • I have gone back in, changed from Google to the HERE map

                      • Added a bunch more WAYPOINTS,

                      • then did a comparison with TOM TOM and OPEN maps... They all followed the same route...

                      MY QUESTION:
                      Is it normal to skip a waypoint and have the Zumo recalculate even though I had recalculation turned off and taking what seemed like the fastest route using the final few WAYPOINTS?

                      I am so losing trust between the MRA and Garmin. I have a 4 day 1,000 mile trip through the NC/VA/WVA mountains planned for this Spring. I don't want to worry about the Zumo randomly changing my route.

                      Giuliano Rescaldaniundefined Offline
                      Giuliano Rescaldaniundefined Offline
                      Giuliano Rescaldani
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #23

                      @Greenham I use Zümo since 2019 and it is an excellent navigator, I also use MRA to plan my route: MRA is also an excellent planner. The problem is that Zümo totally ignores the shaping points! Should you deviate 1m from the planned route, it wants to "recalculate" and your shaping points are gone! I make the following steps:
                      -Plan through MRA.
                      -Save as GPX
                      -With a simple EXCEL VBA script, I remove all what is not a waypoint and I "convert" shape points in real waypoints.
                      -Load it into the Zümo.
                      -Let it calculate the route.
                      -Download the created route on my PC
                      -With a GPX visualizer, superimpose the route created with MRA and the route calculated by Zümo.
                      -Place additional waypoints to force the Zümo to follow the route I want.
                      -Repeat those steps until the route calculated by Zümo is what I want.
                      It is a quit elong process, but then you can drive with an excellent navigator that follows the route you like and not what he thinks is best!

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • Marinus van Deudekomundefined Marinus van Deudekom

                        @Greenham of you're using a 1.2 and you want to skip a viapoint (there are no shaping points in a 1.2) navigate to the displayed track after the skipped viapoint and then press skip waypoint om your XT. It will then keep on the route
                        Have you found out how to display the track under the route?

                        Greenhamundefined Offline
                        Greenhamundefined Offline
                        Greenham
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #24

                        @Marinus-van-Deudekom

                        I was on the highlighted route a few miles from the skipped waypoint. I knew something was gonna go wrong when I did it and saw "calculating route"

                        I have not figured out (haven't looked much either) how to show a track when on a route.

                        Marinus van Deudekomundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

                          @Greenham

                          You use the gpx 1.2, which is a route track with via points. So if you deviate from the route and the XT starts calculating, it will, according to the settings of the XT, take you to the next via point, in your case via the highway. When using the gpx 1.2, turn off the recalculation if you use the gpx 1.1 in this gpx there is both the route file and the treack file and you can also make the track visible

                          gpx 1.2 (with track visible), flags are the via points
                          18147.png

                          gpx 1.1 (with track visible) flags are via points, dots are shaping points.
                          29610.jpg

                          I hope this helps you understand the difference between gpx 1.1 and gpx 1.2

                          Greenhamundefined Offline
                          Greenhamundefined Offline
                          Greenham
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #25

                          @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                          Ok I see the difference. With that being the case why would a person want to use 1.2?

                          Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Mzokkundefined Martin Wilckeundefined 3 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                            @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                            Ok I see the difference. With that being the case why would a person want to use 1.2?

                            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                            Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                            RouteXpert
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #26

                            @Greenham

                            If they want to see only the via points (flags) on the screen. I personally always use gpx 1.2

                            Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                            Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

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                            • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                              @Marinus-van-Deudekom

                              I was on the highlighted route a few miles from the skipped waypoint. I knew something was gonna go wrong when I did it and saw "calculating route"

                              I have not figured out (haven't looked much either) how to show a track when on a route.

                              Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                              Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                              Marinus van Deudekom
                              Valued contributor
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #27

                              @Greenham of you have recalculating off the XT will not recalculate en of you miss a viapoint.
                              If you're past the viapoint you can press skip waypoint of you're ON the route the XT will keep you on the route without recalculating

                              Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                              Honda Silverwing GL 650
                              DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                              Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                              Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                                Ok I see the difference. With that being the case why would a person want to use 1.2?

                                Mzokkundefined Offline
                                Mzokkundefined Offline
                                Mzokk
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #28

                                @Greenham The Choice of Gpx1.1 or Gpx 1.2 is a personal one, there is no right or wrong answer. I still use Garmin Basecamp and MRA and use GPX1.1 with the track on the screen (Which provides similar functionality to GPX1.2 without route guidance its only a line on the map.) GPX 1.1 shows the shaping points (in Garmin naming waypoints in MRA naming) and via points which in Garmin are flags and you have to pass through them. Having these allows me to see the the points I've chosen to shape the route on the unit and allows flexibility to deviate from the route and get back to it without having to stop and reinitiate the route. 208198.jpeg

                                In the picture above the flags are via points and the blue dots are shaping points the yellow line is the track of the intended route enabled on the unit. The circled points are the areas that are off a bit. I might fix these or when I come to that part of the route I follow the track and the Garmin will usually recalculate along the track to the next shaping point. If you look at the picture above with my bike covered in screens I also keep the the skip waypoint button on the screen. This allows me to skip several shaping points to reduce the complexity of the route if I take too long over lunch have a puncture etc. In the example above there is a Motorway north of the intended route. If for some reason I have to shorten the route I can skip about 5-6 shaping points and the Garmin will route me along the Motorway. Also GPX 1.1 is the same as shown on the unit when route planning with Basecamp. I don't even know if I planned the route above on Basecamp or MRA.

                                The big thing is you don't need to leave the house to test all of this you can set up the routes you want to use and run them as simulations. Try rerouting, find out what the skip button does and how it affects the route etc. all from the comfort of your armchair. You will quickly find out what works for you. Good Luck.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                  I am still having issues with my Zumo XT NOT following the route designed in MRA completely/correctly. I have added a bunch more shaping points, used the export to 1.2 gpx. It didn't take long before it routed me down a DEAD END ROAD.... I knew the area and just drove by it. I then took another road, thus passing a WAYPOINT. I "skipped" the waypoint via Zumo, it then said it was recalculating.

                                  From that point on, it seemed to ignore any shaping points and followed a recalculated fastest route using the few WAYPOINTS left from there on. The route was useless from then on... ( it routed me 16miles down an interstate until the next WAYPOINT) I don't ever route via interstates.

                                  Since getting back:

                                  • I have gone back in, changed from Google to the HERE map

                                  • Added a bunch more WAYPOINTS,

                                  • then did a comparison with TOM TOM and OPEN maps... They all followed the same route...

                                  MY QUESTION:
                                  Is it normal to skip a waypoint and have the Zumo recalculate even though I had recalculation turned off and taking what seemed like the fastest route using the final few WAYPOINTS?

                                  I am so losing trust between the MRA and Garmin. I have a 4 day 1,000 mile trip through the NC/VA/WVA mountains planned for this Spring. I don't want to worry about the Zumo randomly changing my route.

                                  Hans ter Braakundefined Offline
                                  Hans ter Braakundefined Offline
                                  Hans ter Braak
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #29

                                  I end almost every ride with Garmin XT because the battery capacity of my (new) Samsung is insufficient for the entire trip, I also want to be able to call. Here map problems.

                                  I also see the same problem as you.
                                  The MRA route is almost always a fraction different from the route on the XT, despite using the Here map during MRA route development.
                                  In order to make MRA and Garmin as similar as possible, I use a via point every 2 km, if possible.

                                  Even then there will be minimal deviations.
                                  An additional advantage with many via points is that, if you have to take a detour, you can also see when you are back on the original route.

                                  It is what it is.
                                  It only creates discussion in groups if the fellow riders think the route is a train track. But that's only when I'm front-rider.

                                  Mzokkundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                  2
                                  • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                    @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                                    Ok I see the difference. With that being the case why would a person want to use 1.2?

                                    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                    Martin Wilcke
                                    wrote on last edited by Martin Wilcke
                                    #30

                                    @Greenham said in STILL having issues w/ my Zumo XT not following the route:

                                    Ok I see the difference. With that being the case why would a person want to use 1.2?

                                    There are many different answers out there; here is mine:

                                    It all comes down to whether you want to drive with auto-recalc on or not.

                                    If activated (because it is convenient), you need GPX 1.1. You have all your shaping points at hand that help keep the shape of your intended route when it comes to a recalc. No worries about deviating, as your app/device will find the best way to continue. The downside: auto-recalc sounds good in theory but often struggles in reality. And ironically, the more shaping points you add, the worse it gets regarding recalc. My experiences.

                                    If deactivated (because it's confusing or even irritating), GPX 1.2 might be the better choice. You eliminate all these shaping points that are just needed when calculating but not when navigating. You have a cleaner look and a pure focus on your via points. The downside: if you deviate, you have to find your way back on your own, and if you're going to get lost, you need a break to work out a new plan.

                                    I suggest saving GPX 1.1 and GPX 1.2 on your Garmin; then, you can always try out which version you like better in which situation.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    3
                                    • Hans ter Braakundefined Hans ter Braak

                                      I end almost every ride with Garmin XT because the battery capacity of my (new) Samsung is insufficient for the entire trip, I also want to be able to call. Here map problems.

                                      I also see the same problem as you.
                                      The MRA route is almost always a fraction different from the route on the XT, despite using the Here map during MRA route development.
                                      In order to make MRA and Garmin as similar as possible, I use a via point every 2 km, if possible.

                                      Even then there will be minimal deviations.
                                      An additional advantage with many via points is that, if you have to take a detour, you can also see when you are back on the original route.

                                      It is what it is.
                                      It only creates discussion in groups if the fellow riders think the route is a train track. But that's only when I'm front-rider.

                                      Mzokkundefined Offline
                                      Mzokkundefined Offline
                                      Mzokk
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #31

                                      @Hans-ter-Braak I lead quite a few groups so try to be as accurate as possible. I like to navigate along little roads often with grass growing up the middle. I do go off route quite frequently as sometimes the roads are closed or I spot something interesting. Mostly my riding companions don't notice 😁

                                      IMG-20230327-WA0010.jpg

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                                      • Greenhamundefined Offline
                                        Greenhamundefined Offline
                                        Greenham
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #32

                                        Excellent replies from all.. I am slowly catching up to you guys on the pros, and cons of 1.1 vs 1.2..

                                        You think having a great tool like MRA and a top notch GPS like the Zumo, you would be in a WYSIWYG type routing. While "somewhat" true the devil lies in the details, and the subtle idiosyncrasies of the technology from 2 different companies, from 2 different parts of the world.

                                        For me I like to use a lot of shaping points because I want a very specific route (anal retentive I suppose). What I have done via this incredibly helpful thread, is 1. Create a lot more shaping points. 2. Created/converted shaping points to Via points. Primarily because I don't like the idea of having to stop a route because I missed a Via point and then restart in again. I'd rather find my way back to the highlighted route via the track.

                                        Thank you all for contributing this has been so helpful

                                        Mzokkundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                          Excellent replies from all.. I am slowly catching up to you guys on the pros, and cons of 1.1 vs 1.2..

                                          You think having a great tool like MRA and a top notch GPS like the Zumo, you would be in a WYSIWYG type routing. While "somewhat" true the devil lies in the details, and the subtle idiosyncrasies of the technology from 2 different companies, from 2 different parts of the world.

                                          For me I like to use a lot of shaping points because I want a very specific route (anal retentive I suppose). What I have done via this incredibly helpful thread, is 1. Create a lot more shaping points. 2. Created/converted shaping points to Via points. Primarily because I don't like the idea of having to stop a route because I missed a Via point and then restart in again. I'd rather find my way back to the highlighted route via the track.

                                          Thank you all for contributing this has been so helpful

                                          Mzokkundefined Offline
                                          Mzokkundefined Offline
                                          Mzokk
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #33

                                          @Greenham Yes you'd think that the Zumo should be WWYSIWYG. It was with certain of the old Zumo's I have a Zumo 340 and 390 that pretty much replicate the routes I create in Basecamp because the routing algorithm for both matched as long as you had the settings matched in Basecamp and the units. I was totally confused with the Zumo XT when I got it because the routing algorithm changed meaning that Basecamp routes no longer matched what the XT did (as stated faster time now =faster roads) which was not the case with the older Zumo's or basecamp. That's part of the reason I'm thinking of moving to myroute app navigation and relegating my XT to a backup. But I did get the hang of the XT in the end 😄

                                          Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                          • Tracklog anders bij gebruik als laag bij maken route
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