Add option for stripping shaping points in gpx export

[Erdna]

Hi everybody,

interesting topic, although it doesn´t concern my use case. Hope you´ll find a solution or at least a workaround.

Just to give an example of scale and "sustainble" use of routing points: this route is 13 days and approx. 7200 km. It uses 192 waypoints. The individual day trips have around 25 to 30 waypoints and average ca. 550 km.

My "dirty solution" for the problem with the old Garmin would be simple: I´d build a loop. Let´s say your planning is a stop at waypoint 8, but you have no waypoints. Why not set waypoint 9 before the real stop? If you reached your planned stop, the Garmin would tell you to turn back. Not suitable for leading groups, I guess.^^

Regards from Austria,
André

[ConiKost]

All right, I did now run some tests and have so say, that I was completly wrong in my mind. The "GPX 1.2" export does work indeed. No shaping points are exported, so a route with more than 50 shaping points just works fine. The route is also correctly being shown.

But: There seems to be an issue with Outdoor devices. All VIA points are missing and not shown. Only Start and End Point is shown, but all Via Points between are gone. This seems only be an export issue, as the VIA points are corrently shown on the MRA web route planer. I can also see those VIA points in the GPX 1.2 file, but the Montana seems just not detect them. I can reproduce that with my Montana.

This does not happen, when using the same exported route from BaseCamp.

I am attaching the same route

1. Transfer with BaseCamp including Shaping Points
2. Transfer with BaseCamp without Shaping Points
3. Transfer GPX 1.2 from MRA to Montana

@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA This would be an investigation worth, because if that could be fixed, we would have full support for Outdoor devices like Montana.

The routes can be found here:
MRA Route GPX 1.2
BC Route with Shaping Points
BC Route without Shaping Points

[ConiKost]

@Martin-Wilcke I have the same issue with your example routes. "Test BC.gpx" works correctly and shows the VIA point in the middle. With "Test 1.2.gpx", the VIA point in the middle is missing and not shown.

[Martin Wilcke]

@ConiKost said in Add option for stripping shaping points in gpx export:

"Test BC.gpx" works correctly and shows the VIA point in the middle. With "Test 1.2.gpx", the VIA point in the middle is missing and not show

That's strange and I didn't expect it.

I have looked at the files - the differences are rather insignificant. But obviously the Montana behaves differently, because the MRA 1.2 is displayed correctly on the XT:

I have made two manual changes to the MRA 1.2 to find out the secret. Can you please load the ‘MRA Route version 2’ saved here
https://hidrive.ionos.com/share/pquvtok.yw
onto your Montana and check whether one of the two Viapoints is displayed?

[ConiKost]

@Martin-Wilcke Thanks for the new route. Unfortunately the VIA points are still missing.

You can see on the second image, that its just missing, there is no indicator, that there is a VIA point.

[Martin Wilcke]

Astonishing.

Perhaps it is not due to a lack of information about the waypoints but to the definition of the route itself.

Would you like to investigate this issue further?
If so: I have changed the route again, it is now Version 3.
https://hidrive.ionos.com/share/pquvtok.yw
Can you please download it to your device?

If there are still no ViaPoints displayed, it would be interesting to know whether they are actually there and are just not shown or whether they have been removed.

Do you have the option on the device to
a) load the route and display the waypoints before starting the navigation? This should then look something like this:

b) start the navigation and then display the directions? Something like this:

I'm curious to see if we can track down the problem

[Jörgen]

Just an idea, compare the files in an text editor to see what is different.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@ConiKost

The developers should dive into that as soon as they have time

[Martin Wilcke]

@Jörgen

Yes, that was exactly my idea. I use MS Visual Studio Code, which has a good compare feature.
There are a few differences between the MRA and the BC version and I'm trying to figure out which one is crucial. Unfortunately, the gpxx extensions are probably responsible for that, but they are a proprietary Garmin development and not publicly known. Most of the time you can only get to the bottom of these effects by trial and error...

[Martin Wilcke]

@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Add option for stripping shaping points in gpx export:

The developers should dive into that as soon as they have time

Of course! But perhaps we can try out a few things in advance to make it easier for the developer to analyse the problem.
This topic is a broad field and you can invest quite a lot of time in it.

[ConiKost]

@Martin-Wilcke Thank you for your help. I am interested in further testing Your number 3 test works, that all VIA points are now being shown. But the whole route is gone. The route is now point to point shown.

Unfortunately, the Montana route planer does not show the VIA points in a list as your Zumo does. This is a sutpid Garmin software decision, as the GPSMap 276Cx could do this and was based on Montana software.. the only option, where is does show VIA points like Zumo in a list, if I do transfer a route from Basecamp with "Direct Navigation". Thats the only case, where this works. You can find such example route here: clickme (This means only straight lines, no routing)

This is can example, what I mean. It only works with my uploaded direct Route from Basecamp. Your "MRA Route Version 3", despide being direct, does not show its points, so it's apprently not detected as direct route?

@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA Great, many thanks. Do you want to open for that a support ticket?

[Martin Wilcke]

@Peter-Schiefer

Thanks for the link, I‘ll check it out!

[Martin Wilcke]

@ConiKost

OK - here comes the next and hopefully final attempt (Version 4):
https://hidrive.ionos.com/share/pquvtok.yw

This version contains all the additional information from the BC file, which either has static values or can be derived relatively easily.

I'm curious to see if it works!

[Martin Wilcke]

@ConiKost

ooops, little bug in version 4, please use version 5.

[ConiKost]

@Peter-Schiefer Thanks, I will have a look.

@Martin-Wilcke Thank you. I tried V5 and Unfortunately no change. Still missing VIA points.

[Martin Wilcke]

@ConiKost
Too bad. Then the gpxx:subclasses must probably also be included, but I have no idea how the content can be determined or derived. Maybe someone else has an idea...

[Canario]

@ConiKost
I use outdoor Garmins since decades for my Moto bike Tours. Having ViaPoints part of the route is one of the most important things for my routing. With export/import of the GPX 1.2 files and recalculation set to off in the Montana 700i, the Routing works fine but the ViaPoints are missing.
It surely seems to have something to do with the GPXX : Subclass Tags. It would be great, if ViaPoint support for Garmin Outdoor Devices could be implemented in MRA. Until then, I will stick with Basecamp, possibly running on a virtual machine with Windows 10 or 11 in the future.

[ConiKost]

@Canario said in Add option for stripping shaping points in gpx export:

@ConiKost
I use outdoor Garmins since decades for my Moto bike Tours. Having ViaPoints part of the route is one of the most important things for my routing. With export/import of the GPX 1.2 files and recalculation set to off in the Montana 700i, the Routing works fine but the ViaPoints are missing.
It surely seems to have something to do with the GPXX : Subclass Tags. It would be great, if ViaPoint support for Garmin Outdoor Devices could be implemented in MRA. Until then, I will stick with Basecamp, possibly running on a virtual machine with Windows 10 or 11 in the future.

To be honest, I don't have high hopes, that this will be proper supported in future, as most of the users here uses automotive devices like Zumo/Tread. And the roadmap seems to have more important features on it's list (which I can even understand..)