Navigating via MRA Navigation...

[Con Hennekens]

@matt-flaming said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

@mark-panarusky said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

Is there someway to organize or reorder the routes?

No.

One of the many issues we have with it.

Yes, there is, it is called events. I usually make an event, and add the routes of a multi-day trip to it. In Navigation you open events instead of routes. This way you keep routes that belong to each other nicely together. But of course it would be nice if the folder-structure would equal that of MRA routeplanner. They are working on it (I read somewhere here on the forum).

I know it is not a real substitute for the missing folder structure, but this can come in handy:
If you change the name of a route, and save it without actually changing the name, the route will appear at the top of the list in navigation. This gives you a handle to put the current routes at the top of the list.

As a fact, I found it to be quite handy that the lastly added or changed routes are being put on top, because it is most likely that those are most likely the routes that have my current interest.

[Drabslab]

@con-hennekens said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

Yes, there are multiple statements made that MRA Navigation cannot route without an active internet connection. That simply is not true.

As said before, I have no experience with NAV as I am using a tomTom but I would prefer to move to NAV when that TomTom finally breaks. However, with the info available here casting doubt on the functionality of NAV... I would probably buy another TomTom.

I would not blame the users for making incorrect statements supposing that they work from their personal experience with the tool, and are not posting lies just for the sake of trolling. Point is that I am not aware of any official "table" produced by MRA that gives a clear overview of the NAV abilities. Is there one somewhere?

@nick-carthew said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

The reason that the folder structure is not used in MRA Navigation is Apple CarPlay doesn’t allow folders.

Waw nick... I am flabbergasted, bamboozeld, struck by lightning ....

I do believe you but my opinion on this is very close to the one from Stefan. I wouldn't be able to express it politely in writing, not even with <personal opinion> tags added.

It does illustrate how MRA is constrained by all the platforms it has to deal with and remain compatible with Garmin, TomTom, Apple, Android, Sygic .... A revamp of NAV should bring it in a posiiton where it integrates with the MRA routeplanner, and remains in sync with all new features added to that routeplanner.

In this situation, weaknesses of other platforms will be the limitation of those platforms, and not of MRA.

What does surprise me is the total absence of MRA in this conversation. Errors like "MRA Navigation cannot route without an active internet connection" can be easily corrected (certainly when including how to do it).

I know that the intention is that this is a community forum run by the community for the community but how can MRA consider that it is not part of that community??

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@matt-flaming
Hello @Matt

MRA should develop according to the guidelines set by Apple.
With this, Apple indeed determines what is allowed and what is not allowed in an App that wants to be allowed in the Apple Store.
MRA Navigation works in AppleCarplay and you can load your routes there via an event or list of routes.
For example, every platform for which you develop an app has its own guidelines that you must adhere to as a developer.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@matt-flaming
Matt don't worry too much, it's no different, and by using an event, you can also handle the route(s) you will be driving on that date. Or are you going to drive 100 routes in 1 day?

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@matt-flaming
Hi Matt,

And you think we don't want to improve things??
A number of things are certainly already known, only if you have to adhere to the guidelines to make an App available, then you make a choice. And communicate to your users how they can best use the app.
And if you make that method your own, you will see that it is not that bad.
You don't have to defend your ideas, of course you can make them known and you did.
It would be a shame if you feel attacked by this and you will be less present on the forum.

[Nick Carthew]

@matt-flaming said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

@nick-carthew said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

The reason that the folder structure is not used in MRA Navigation is Apple CarPlay doesn’t allow folders.

LOLWUT?
So they let Apple decide how this app should work? Really?

To develop an app, especially a navigation app that was not compatible with Apple CarPlay and eventually Android Auto is totally senseless. The majority of new motorcycles and cars being produced today and certainly in the future, will have TFT displays.

@con-hennekens said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

Maybe you shouldn't if you hate it so much. This forum is intended to help people, it is no bashing platform.

So people that paid for a product, didn't get the product that they PAID for, AS IT WAS ADVERTISED, should just STFU and deal with it? With no complaints at all? How FANBOYISH of you. WOW. Man, you really need to realize that this forum isn't for praising the MRA gods, it's for helping make the product better and to help others. If nobody talked about the issues and shortcomings, it would never get better.

From what I remember @Matt-Flaming, you were given a total refund because you weren't happy with the product, so it's beyond me why you constantly bash those users that have taken the time to learn how to create accurate routes and use the Navigation app properly and are very happy with it, that you accuse them of sucking up to the MRA Gods!
Your view is very much in the minority. I fail to see how your approach is helpful to users of this forum. Criticism is helpful if it's not offered in the form of a rant.

@con-hennekens said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

Yes, there is, it is called events.

This is absolutely not a proper solution for organization of routes. Events are not intended for that purpose. If that feature was intended for that purpose it wouldn't be called "EVENTS"

What would you call EVENTS then? Isn't a multi-day tour an event? It really isn't difficult to create an event or even multiple events if you have the will to try.

@drabslab said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

It does illustrate how MRA is constrained by all the platforms it has to deal with and remain compatible with Garmin, TomTom, Apple, Android, Sygic

I don't understand why they have to do those things. If they cared about NAV, they would just make their product work properly.

With the greatest respect @Matt-Flaming your statement illustrates your lack of knowledge about the need for compatibility across different platforms in today's day and age.

[Drabslab]

@everybody

Please guys, we have been able to discuss a sensitive subject (sensitive as apparently some people have avery negative experience with NAV) in a very civil way.

But I see that the emotions are starting to rise.

My proposal is to calm down , all of us so we can continue to talk, or to agree that we stop commenting here. The issue isn't worth a fallout on the forum

[Nick Carthew]

@matt-flaming said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

@hans-van-de-ven-mra-master said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

@matt-flaming
Matt don't worry too much, it's no different, and by using an event, you can also handle the route(s) you will be driving on that date. Or are you going to drive 100 routes in 1 day?

Gotta love how everyone thinks everyone else should use the app the same as them

What a strange statement! Advice is offered and you laugh in their face. You will only learn if you're willing to learn! No, it's not the ideal situation and yes most of us would like to see the folder structure being used, but for reasons already mentioned, that is not possible. So we use the next best solution (or some of us do).

No, I have lots of routes, and sometimes when I go out to an area, I want to select a route that I created...but maybe that route is one I haven't touched in a long time. So what you're saying is that instead of having a way for the user to actually organize and have all routes available offline, we should know what we're doing before we leave cell service. I ride adv bikes, and try to stay off main roads and highways as much as possible. This puts me out of service a lot.

So the answer here would be to load all of the routes in that area into an event, that's called forward planning!

I guess it's pointless to continue this discussion. There are far too many people here defending EVERY LITTLE THING that MRA does, and they seem to have no criticisms or desires to make the product better.

Maybe the many MRA users here defending MRA Nav are doing so because they don't experience the problems that you do.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@matt-flaming
Hi Matt,

And you think we don't want to improve things??
A number of things are certainly already known, only if you have to adhere to the guidelines to make an App available, then you make a choice. And communicate to your users how they can best use the app.
And if you make that method your own, you will see that it is not that bad.
You don't have to defend your ideas, of course you can make them known and you did.
It would be a shame if you feel attacked by this and you will be less present on the forum.

[Drabslab]

@hans-van-de-ven-mra-master damn, apparently my request to keep it civil came too late

[Drabslab]

@matt-flaming At my job, our big boss (also called Director General) has forbidden us to discuss on anything using email.... or any other form of electronic writing because he considers it the best way possible ... to end up in an argument, even when nobody really wants to have an argument.

Hence, I spend quite some time video conferencing... and have to admit my DG is right (there is a reason why he is director general ).

Here on this forum it is the same, we all start from our own experience, are from different cultures... and sometimes write somethign that can be taken badly by someone else. That does apply to everybody here, i am not throwing any stone to anybody in particular (it would mess up my computer screen )

Basically, you must stay on board... your critical view is valuable, I may not always agree ... but that is maybe the best part of it. Your criticism makes me think... and that on its own is constructive.

and let's agree to be even more careful in future how we say things, Constructive criticism, even when said muted, is picked up and will be listened to by the company running this show.

All the best

[Nick Carthew]

@matt-flaming said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

@nick-carthew I give up man!

You won't hear from me about this any more!

I have requested my account be removed from this forum. I'm tired of this stuff. I'm not allowed to speak my mind here at all for fear of being told I'm an idiot and wrong.

I don't want you to leave this forum and sincerely hope that you don't but you are free to do this if that is your wish. The same as you are free to speak your mind, none of your posts or topics have been removed, this wouldn't be the case if you were not to be able to speak your mind freely. Nobody has called you an idiot and if they had the admin team would deal with it.

I think the tone of your comments can sometimes seem a little confrontational which is possibly why you receive the replies that you do.
We're all after the same objective here and that is to have a Navigation app that is versatile enough to suit all needs.

[PAD 0]

I have looked through this thread to identify multiple instances of people claiming Navigation doesn’t function in offline mode and can only find one that even gets close. That instance simply points out that the app doesn’t do so to the extent that dedicated sat nav devices do; in that MRA hasn’t provided the facility to download a route or routes onto the host device. Thus customers (note that word - it might seem old fashioned, but I think it’s important nonetheless!) hoping to use a combination of Routeplanner and Navigation are reliant upon an internet connection to a far greater extent than users of, for example, Garmin BaseCamp and a compatible Garmin device such as one of their Zūmo range. Now, given that MRA’s marketing materials present their products as offering a viable replacement for such route planning and sat nav systems and here is an instance of this simply not being the case, it seems to me that, prima facie, a legal action could reasonably be instigated on the strength of that marketing being misleading.

To date, customers have, patiently and hopefully in the main I think, attempted to encourage MRA to improve the Navigation app via the support system and this forum, both in this regard and in relation to a plethora of endlessly varying performance related issues. Neither avenue has yielded any significant improvements. It would seem that patience is now being strained and hope lost. That’s a great shame. Particularly as incorporating the facility to install routes onto host devices should be relatively straightforward, given that navigable map layers can already be installed for offline use, and that this would go a very long way to providing functionality much closer to that of dedicated sat navs.

The matter of ongoing performance issues would likely remain, of course. And in this regard the support for Navigation seems to have all but disappeared. I tried to feed back issues for some time, but it eventually became quite clear that this is futile. Why? You tell me! Maybe the developers have simply adopted a CBA* approach? Or perhaps funds are tight and development has been suspended? After all, there has been a spate of fundraising attempts of late - several supposedly ‘last chance’ ‘opportunities’ to purchase ‘lifetime’ subscriptions and the bizarre ‘Routexperts on a stick’ thing…
Customers have no way of knowing, given the ever growing lack of transparency and published Navigation app development pathways, etc, from MRA. All we have had is completely unfulfilled promises of imminent improvements, followed by a revelation that, despite the current poor state of Navigation, MRA are considering a parallel app called ‘Next’! Wow!!! Or is that just some form of obfuscation?

The conspicuous absence of input from MRA executives as this thread (and others) develops does nothing to help. Instead, we have the spectacle of a few acolytes seeking to repudiate the use based observations of customers. My experience of the Navigation app is that it is ill conceived and developed, bug ridden (to the point of being potentially dangerous), lacks any meaningful support coverage, is so unreliable as to be worthless to me (hence my deleting it) and is simply not as described in MRA’s marketing. And that is not because I ‘don’t know how to use it’, it’s because, in my experience, it is ill conceived and developed, bug ridden (to the point of being potentially dangerous), lacks any meaningful support coverage, is so unreliable as to be worthless and is simply not as described in MRA’s marketing.

But, then, what does that matter? I’m only a C-U-S-T-O-M-E-R…

As for Apple CarPlay… Even as a user of Apple mobile devices (sorry, Android phones weren’t an option in early 2008), the notion that it (or any similar technology from any other manufacturer) might dictate my choices on the basis of its limitations and inadequacies has me say bollocks to that as driving force (sorry, bad pun).

*Can’t Be Arsed

[Nick Carthew]

@matt-flaming said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

I can reproduce this issue every single time: Open Nav, select a location to navigate to (not a route you've made) and make sure it's at least 30 minutes drive. Record your route. At the 30 minute mark, the navigation crashes back to the "calculation screen", then starts over at the last place it crashed, but if you're already en route, it will act as if it is in demo mode, and even when you reach your destination it's miles/multiple minutes behind because it isn't following you. For added measure, rotate the device while it is navigating and it will crash back to the location it crashed at on the 30 minute mark and start the process over again, and be in demo mode from that location to your current.

I had never used MRA Navigation for purely an A - B route so I was unable to answer your post yesterday. Today using my iPhone 11 with IOS 15.2.1 and ver 1.1 of the IOS nav app, I selected a destination approximately 30 miles (50 minutes) away and selected to track (record) the route. I stopped halfway and took photo and another at the destination, no crashes and no problem. When I exited the nav app I checked to see if a new tracklog had been created and it had, complete with the 2 photos.
I selected to navigate to a favourite (home) for the return journey as I hadn't used that feature either, same result, no problem at all.
Now I know that you don't use an Apple phone so my test isn't much use for you, but it proved to me that as far as the IOS version of the nav app goes, it works faultlessly.
Hans is going to check in the next couple of days on his Android phone to see whether an A - B route of more than 30 minutes duration works correctly.
What phone do you use?
It seems strange that you're experiencing problems after 30 minutes each time you try, is your phone trying to shut off after this time? Or is it getting too hot?

[Nick Carthew]

@matt-flaming Let’s see how @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master gets on with his test.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@nick-carthew and @Matt-Flaming

Tomorrow and Saturday I will test drive the Android version, normally I use the IoS version. Both online and in offline mode.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@hans-van-de-ven-mra-master

First small test on the bicycle, no problems and I did not stay on the calculated route, also track saved. This was online
I know, only 20 minutes and 2.5 miles, but the office isn't farther away...

[Stefan Hummelink]

@matt-flaming Your findings are very consistent, but yet they haven't occurred to me all season long last year. I use android app as well. How is this possible?

What are the differences between our two situations? Might continent play a role? Europe vs. US? I'm just thinking out loud to get a grip on what might be causing this very strong discrepancy? I am in no way trained in App stuff so that's why I put forth these perhaps dumb questions.

Ps* I have not driven a route since September last year, so I'll have to check again to see if it has been introduced to me as well. Don't have the time now though.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@stefanhummelink ans @Matt-Flaming

I'm going to take a test drive today, both in the off-line and on-line setting with MRA Navigation on Android device. (Samsung Galaxy A8)
Version One UI: 1.0
Android version: 9

I created a favorite that is 45 minutes away from the starting point so after 30 minutes the app should crash

[Drabslab]

@hans-van-de-ven-mra-master said in Navigating via MRA Navigation...:

@stefanhummelink ans @Matt-Flaming

I'm going to take a test drive today, both in the off-line and on-line setting with MRA Navigation on Android device. (Samsung Galaxy A8)
Version One UI: 1.0
Android version: 9

I created a favorite that is 45 minutes away from the starting point so after 30 minutes the app should crash

This is developing like a real thriller or how even an IT bug can cause soem positive excitement :-):-)