GPX Versions 1.1 vs 1.2 for Garmin Visually Explained

[Simon James Hancock]

Ok , I have just come back from a test ride where I had one Garmin xt and one Garmin xt2 connected to the bike.
On the Xt i loaded 1.1 file and the Xt2 a 1.2 file Obviuosly both the same route.
Both routes had the first and last points as via points and all the others were shaping points.
After placing the first via point further down the road from where I started both units came up immediatly with a messag if I wanted to recalculta the route. I said no to both of them. As soon as i reached the first via points both units navigated successfully my loaded route.
However when I stopped and turned the bike off and the units off for a drink at a bar on the route and then turned them back on again I had problems carrying on back along the route. I have to point out that the route is an out and return along the same road.
Any suggestions on how to get back on the route after stopping?

[Steve Jarrell]

@Simon-James-Hancock Use via points for any spot where you want to either stop OR pass by. They basically mean "unless I manually skip this point go to it". I think of them as "mini destinations" on my route. On the Garmin after you press "Go" you can use any one of these via points as the starting point of your route.

Shaping points are just that.... they shape your route, and if you do get off route for any reason and do go past them you do not have to skip them manually and you won't be routed back to them. In other words, they're not mandatory points in your route like via points are.

With .gpx 1.1 you have to use a LOT of shaping points to ensure that the route that the Garmin calculates is the same as what you're seeing in MRA as the Garmin uses it's own logic to route (fastest, shortest, etc.) between the via and shaping points.

With 1.2 MRA creates a track that's included in the route information which forces the Garmin to ignore its own logic and follow the route exactly as you intended.

I personally use Via points to indicate the points that I don't want to bypass unless I manually skip them, and I use shaping points to shape the route. When I am happy with the route that I see on my computer screen, I export it in 1.2 format, import it into my Garmin and the route will be JUST LIKE it was in MRA.

[Simon James Hancock]

Thanks Steve that is all clear now.
On an out and return route in order not to have any problems when restarting the route is it best to put a few via points that you can use to get started in the right direction again, and if so how to you tell garmin to go to a selected via point?

[Steve Jarrell]

@Simon-James-Hancock I replied earlier that you'd need to stop the route then restart it to skip the first via point. That's not completely true.... I hereby correct myself!

On the bottom right corner of the Garmin you'll see three lines. Press this area and it will bring up a menu that will allow you to skip the next via point. On my Garmin 595 there's simply a "Skip" option on that menu, and on my XT3 there's an "Edit Route" option that will allow you to select a "Skip Next Destination" option. It may be a little different on your Garmin but you'll find it.

I haven't ever used this option myself (hence the reason why I forgot that it was even there) but based on my testing here it looks like if you're not on your route already and you delete the next via point that the Garmin then uses its own logic to get to the following via point.

I'm ASSUMING (but I very well could be wrong, so I'm going to test it for myself and verify) that if you are on your route and you simply skip the next via point that the Garmin will continue to follow your desired route. That's easy to verify if you're showing your route and track simultaneously, and you can also watch and see if your distance and / or time changes when you make the change.

Perhaps someone with more experience skipping via points with the Garmin with the 1.2 .gpx format can verify or refute my assumption. I will report back with what I find.

[Simon James Hancock]

Ok I have just managed to find the Skip option on my Xt2 under edit. I also made my tracke wide and yellow to make it visible when navigating.
I am trying to get the hang of this before I take the wife on the bike to Marocco in September. The My Route app is fantastic for planning everything. I just don't want to be faffing around trying to find out what to do when I am there.I have a friend coming with his Nissan pickup and I will give him my XT. He is even less of an expert than me and I was thinking of loading just a track for him to follow, to make it easier if we get seperated.
As I will not be connecting the Garmin to my phone or headset I could just use a track too, what do you think?

Simon-James-Hancock said in GPX Versions 1.1 vs 1.2 for Garmin Visually Explained:

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[Mzokk]

You have the option to keep up to three "Function" buttons on the screen of the Zumo XT (and my old 340and 390) I keep a skip waypoint button and stop route button on the screen. These can be displayed permanently while navigating.

This is a route and track with a Start Finish and two via points.

.

If you skip the first via point the route becomes this as the GArmin XT recalculates the route using its own parameters.

The track is shown on the screen. You can test this from the comfort of your sofa by simulating the route.

[Mzokk]

As far as I can tell, gpx1.2 from MRA removes shaping points (in Garmin speak), but includes route point extensions. Those are generated as the result of routing calculations. They are in the same locations as track points would be if you exported a track generated from the route. Route point extensions are ignored on route recalculation however. That means an imported gpx 1.2 route will look just fine on import, but if it is recalculated, only the via points(Via points,stopping points known as Waypoints in Garmin speak with a flag), will be used in the recalculation. How close the recalculated route will be to the original route depends on differences between MRA and the zumo in terms of maps, routing algorithm and user settings for preferences (e.g. shortest vs fastest route) and avoidances (e.g. highways, tolls, ...).

This is the same route as a GPX1.1 with loads of shaping points to pin it to the route. I use this format together with the track of the route as I often lead groups of riders on unknown roads and want to know that if I go astray and have to use automatic recalculation that I will be returned to the route to the nearest shaping point.

Garmin in their wisdom (or otherwise) have changed the routing behaviour with regard to shaping points somewhere between my Zumo 340/390 and the XT. On the old units the recalculation directed you to the next shaping point along the route. The XT routes to the closest shaping point, that on an out and back route might be on the way back. Therefore now with the XT you have to put a Via point at the farthest extent of an out and back route to ensure that the unit does not route back if a recalculation takes place.

Bottom line if you use GPX1.2 turn recalculations off on the XT. If you use GPX1.1 you can use recalculation as long as the route is carefully designed.

[Mzokk]

@Simon-James-Hancock A track can't go wrong but you will have no visual warning of turns. OSMand+ is good for track navigation but has a hell of a learning curve. In all honesty whatever navigation device you use they all have a learning curve......practice, practice, practice to find out what works best for you and how to get the best from the device you are using.

[Simon James Hancock]

So If I was to make a 1.2 route in MRA with first and last points as via points plus adding in the odd via point where I don't want the garmin to deviate from that particular area should be ok?
On my Maroccan trip their will be no backtracks so it should be easier when selecting to skip to the next point.

[Mzokk]

If you use the Garmin "Faster Time" Algorithm then the XT will recalculate along the main roads if they're available along your route.

[Simon James Hancock]

That's already checked and I managed to configure the skip next point button on my map screen of my XT2.

[Steve Jarrell]

@Simon-James-Hancock Personally in that situation I would just put the beginning and ending via points in the route and then put as many shaping points in as necessary to make the route go where you want it to go, then export it in 1.2 format and use it in both units. By doing so you basically have a track within the route that the Garmin is forced to follow.

Here's what I verified today with my XT3 and 595. I do have auto recalculate turned off on both units.

The problem with multiple via points is that if you do tell the Garmin to skip one, it uses its own logic to recalculate the entire route from via point to via point. On two different GPSs that's almost certainly going to give you two different routes.

On the XT3, when you begin your route, if you tell it to start at one of your via points it will start at that point and follow the remainder of your route as you planned it.

On the 595 when you start at a different via point than the beginning it behaves the same way that skipping a via point does and recalculates the entire route.

Confused yet?? This is very inconsistent but it's the way it works right now.

Bottom line??? Here are your options IMO.

1. As I said with two Garmin units, turn auto recalculate off, just use beginning and ending via points and shaping points as necessary to form your route the way that you want it and use the 1.x format.

2. Just follow a track, but this doesn't give you turn by turn instruction and it's very distracting to have to be constantly watching the screen for directions.

3. Export the track, then once it's imported into the Garmin have the Garmin create a route from it. I really don't think that this is going to be any different from my first suggestion above though.

The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend if you're going to be traveling with someone in a separate vehicle is to get a pair of Cardo (or similar) communicators so that you can talk back and forth. For your friend in the truck you'd have to rig up some type of wired earbuds or an external speaker and rig up way for him to use the microphone but IMO it would be WELL worth it.

[Steve Jarrell]

@Simon-James-Hancock The easiest solution to this issue isn't using multiple via points as they will cause unwanted rerouting issues if you skip them even if you have auto recalculation turned off as I've documented.

Instead, try this....

When you turn the power off on the bike the GPS will lose power and will begin a countdown before it turns off. Cancel the shutdown. Then you can quickly press the on/off button and it will go into standby mode. When you power it back up it will be in exactly the same state as it was when you turned the bike off.

[Steve Jarrell]

@Simon-James-Hancock "As I will not be connecting the Garmin to my phone or headset I could just use a track too, what do you think?"

I missed this part before. The issue with a track is that you have to really be watching your GPS constantly as you don't have any turn-by-turn instructions, and especially being in a foreign country and not knowing the roads I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

I would absolutely have the voice commands coming to my helmet, and as I mentioned in my last post I would also have a means to be communicating with the other person that's following you.

[John S Parry]

@Mzokk Nice write-up. I've only created two routes exported as 1.2 for import into my XT3, and they ran exactly as developed in MRA. It was nice not to have to overload shaping points to force calculations as I planned. On my last test, I did intentionally go off the route line once, but I didn't recalculate and the route picked back up when I reentered the road.

On that note, as strange as it might seem, I've never skipped waypoints or performed off route re-calculations in my Zumo units. I have recalculation turned off and simply return to the route after I deviate for gas, food, or some other miscellaneous reason. Again, it's intentional, so it's never far enough off-route where I can't handle getting back to where I should be without XT help. I guess we all approach route execution differently.

Still, it's nice to understand how 1.1 and 1.2 handle off route recalculation differently.

[Steve Jarrell]

@John-S-Parry I agree John.

If you don't include via points between your starting and ending via points and then skip them while navigating a route, it seems that you can rejoin your planned route manually if you have auto recalculation turned off with the 1.2 format. That's fine and easy to manage for me

That makes sense as basically (with my simplistic thought process) as a 1.2 route with only a beginning and ending via point is basically a track that's been converted to a route.

When you introduce an intermediate via point in the route and then skip it, you give the Garmin the permission to totally ignore your planned route and do whatever it wants to do and recalculate the route as it sees fit!

For me personally if I just want a GPS to determine a route for me based on its on algorithms I'll just use Google Maps or Waze, but that's not why I use MRA! I want to determine exactly where I go when I'm riding!

Garmin, LEAVE MY ******** ROUTE ALONE!!! I don't need your help!!!

[John S Parry]

@Steve-Jarrell I am curious about one scenario under 1.2......

One of my favorite features in the Zumo is "Up Ahead". I've found it invaluable for locating gas stations and restaurants in areas I'm unfamiliar with. I was recently riding with a friend in the coastal Redwood forests along US-101 in far Northern California. Desolation doesn't describe how isolated that area is. We were heading south with no civilization is sight. And we were getting hungry. On the Zumo, I selected "Up Ahead", then the Restaurant category, and saw a small town a few miles west of the route that had a highly rated burger place. I selected it, and the Zumo gave me the option of adding the diversion to my route. Again, I selected it and the off/on diversion worked perfectly. I'm wondering if under the covers that was a full route recalculate, and if my 1.2 route would have been altered up further ahead in an undesirable way?

[Carl Lee]

@simon-james-hancock, also learned the hard way is if you start your route with 'CEP' (closest entry point) and either your end point or some other part of the route is closer to you than the start point, you can ride a very short route! In which case, choose the 'Start'.

If you wish to mark a petrol station or similar without creating a via point, create a POI of it in MRA. You can name it whatever you like and change the symbol. It will only show up as a flag and name on your Zumo though - these can be edited. There will be no distance or time shown to it but very handy nonetheless.

I'll reaffirm what I said earlier re 'auto-recalculate' with GPX1.2. It can be left on if you wish to be guided back to your route. It does not (in my tests) recalculate you to the next via point.

[Simon James Hancock]

Carl that is exactly what happened to me when my end point was closer to me when I set off than my start point, thanks.
I will try the POI when creating the map in MRA.
Maybe when selecting a petrol station in the Up Ahead menue it will not be neccessary to creat a POI.

[Will Brooks]

I've found when creating routes especially circular ones with a start and finish point close together or an "out and back" route using some of the same roads that the best way is to plan my route and then split it into 2 routes using the MRA split function so I have an "OUTBOUND" route and a "RETURN" route. That way I can totally eliminate the issue of confusion when skipping or recalculating of the XT misrouting to a point that is on my return leg rather than my outbound leg.