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Route ignores obvious left turn

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved [Web] Problems, Bugs and other Issues
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  • twinfanundefined twinfan

    OSM provides for problem reporting and map fixes. I made this note:

    alt text

    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
    Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
    Martin Wilcke
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    @twinfan said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

    OSM provides for problem reporting and map fixes.

    I know. But what exactly causes the problem, in your opinion, and what should be changed or corrected?
    As mentioned above, other planners based on OSM allow a left turn, so it's not an OSM Map issue. Do you disagree?

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • twinfanundefined Offline
      twinfanundefined Offline
      twinfan
      wrote on last edited by
      #10

      @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

      I know. But what exactly causes the problem, in your opinion, and what should be changed or corrected?
      As mentioned above, other planners based on OSM allow a left turn, so it's not an OSM Map issue. Do you disagree?

      From what I read in the earlier posts the HERE and TomTom maps route correctly when selected. So does the Garmin City Navigator North America NT 2025.2 map on my Zumo XT. I think it is a problem with the OSM map but I have no idea how one would fix it.

      Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • twinfanundefined twinfan

        @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

        I know. But what exactly causes the problem, in your opinion, and what should be changed or corrected?
        As mentioned above, other planners based on OSM allow a left turn, so it's not an OSM Map issue. Do you disagree?

        From what I read in the earlier posts the HERE and TomTom maps route correctly when selected. So does the Garmin City Navigator North America NT 2025.2 map on my Zumo XT. I think it is a problem with the OSM map but I have no idea how one would fix it.

        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
        Martin Wilcke
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        @twinfan said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

        I think it is a problem with the OSM map but I have no idea how one would fix it.

        I have taken a closer look at this spot.

        The issue is probably caused by an extra barrier:lift_gate entry in addition to the railway:level_crossing. In my opinion, this is wrong.

        I've added this to your comment, let's see if a mapper with local knowledge makes a change there.

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        • twinfanundefined Offline
          twinfanundefined Offline
          twinfan
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke . I was contemplating learning more about OSM editing but it is very complex and I wouldn't want to make things worse.

          Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • twinfanundefined Offline
            twinfanundefined Offline
            twinfan
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            I also thought it odd that there were signals shown in only three of the four corners but, then again, I don't understand the mapping "language."

            ![alt text](e15f6f5e-9fe8-4731-a067-62de0d06c9ae-image.png image url)

            Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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            • twinfanundefined twinfan

              I also thought it odd that there were signals shown in only three of the four corners but, then again, I don't understand the mapping "language."

              ![alt text](e15f6f5e-9fe8-4731-a067-62de0d06c9ae-image.png image url)

              Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
              Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
              Martin Wilcke
              wrote on last edited by Martin Wilcke
              #14

              @twinfan said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

              I don't understand the mapping "language."

              Here is an overview of all valid keys, their values, meaning and examples:

              https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_features

              Search for railway:level_crossing and barrier:lift_gate; these are the key types related to this issue.

              It is worth familiarising yourself with the different categories because there is an extra bonus: you can search for OSM POIs in a given area, export them as GPX and import them into MRA. This way, you can create your own POI libraries in MRA. We have discussed an example ("castles in the UK") here:

              https://forum.myrouteapp.com/post/58690

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              • twinfanundefined twinfan

                Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke . I was contemplating learning more about OSM editing but it is very complex and I wouldn't want to make things worse.

                Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                Martin Wilcke
                wrote on last edited by Martin Wilcke
                #15

                @twinfan

                According to Google Street View, there is a railway crossing with two half barrier arms but no extra lift gate (this is the mapping error):

                OSM-3.jpg

                So, I recommend making the following changes (for both directions):

                • Delete the lift gate barrier:

                OSM-4.jpg

                Add the "two-half barrier arm" attribute to the railway crossing:

                OSM-5.jpg

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                • twinfanundefined Offline
                  twinfanundefined Offline
                  twinfan
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke, I will give it a try. I use that intersection regularly, today in fact.

                  Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • twinfanundefined Offline
                    twinfanundefined Offline
                    twinfan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    I made your recommended changes and checked the box asking for a review from an experience mapper, just in case. I also found another intersection about one mile earlier in the route that had a similar condition and revised it. This explains how MRA chose the route it did on my initial try. Thank you again for your guidance. I enjoyed learning about OSM!
                    Tom

                    Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                    -1
                    • twinfanundefined twinfan

                      Thank you, @Martin-Wilcke, I will give it a try. I use that intersection regularly, today in fact.

                      Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                      Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                      Martin Wilcke
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      @twinfan

                      https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/4613925

                      Cool! 👍

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                      • twinfanundefined twinfan

                        I made your recommended changes and checked the box asking for a review from an experience mapper, just in case. I also found another intersection about one mile earlier in the route that had a similar condition and revised it. This explains how MRA chose the route it did on my initial try. Thank you again for your guidance. I enjoyed learning about OSM!
                        Tom

                        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                        Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                        Martin Wilcke
                        wrote last edited by
                        #19

                        @twinfan
                        It took a loooooong time (probably due to the refresh cycle of the OSM server used by MRA), but it finally works now!

                        left turn.jpg

                        Brian McGundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • twinfanundefined Offline
                          twinfanundefined Offline
                          twinfan
                          wrote last edited by
                          #20

                          @Martin-Wilcke, thanks for checking and nice to see it worked!

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                          • Martin Wilckeundefined Martin Wilcke

                            @twinfan
                            It took a loooooong time (probably due to the refresh cycle of the OSM server used by MRA), but it finally works now!

                            left turn.jpg

                            Brian McGundefined Offline
                            Brian McGundefined Offline
                            Brian McG
                            wrote last edited by
                            #21

                            @Martin-Wilcke the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                            an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                            As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,
                            it can lag by many many months as you have seen.

                            Here map data can take from a few days to several weeks to update
                            MRA update their Here data a lot more regularly, I think with every MRA update

                            BlackView BV7100, Android 12
                            Normaly navigate Routes in Offline mode with Offline Maps

                            Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Brian McGundefined Brian McG

                              @Martin-Wilcke the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                              an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                              As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,
                              it can lag by many many months as you have seen.

                              Here map data can take from a few days to several weeks to update
                              MRA update their Here data a lot more regularly, I think with every MRA update

                              Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                              Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                              Martin Wilcke
                              wrote last edited by
                              #22

                              @Brian-McG said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                              the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                              an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                              I know. With other apps, this change was visible within a few days.

                              As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,

                              That's what I mean by

                              the OSM server used by MRA

                              Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                              Brian McGundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Martin Wilckeundefined Martin Wilcke

                                @Brian-McG said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                                the refresh cycle is not to do with OSM,
                                an edit to the OSM map can appear & be publicly available within a matter of hours.

                                I know. With other apps, this change was visible within a few days.

                                As I understand it, MRA take a snapshot of the OSM map data & the timing of the snapshot is quite irregular,

                                That's what I mean by

                                the OSM server used by MRA

                                Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                                Brian McGundefined Offline
                                Brian McGundefined Offline
                                Brian McG
                                wrote last edited by
                                #23

                                @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                                Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                                Apologies if I misinterpreted your previous post, terminology often does not translate well.

                                e.g. for me the term "mirror" implies the same data is available in 2 or multiple locations at similar times.
                                So I would not use "mirror" regarding MRA's OSM data as it is out of date for a considerable amount of time compared to the data available from OSM. It is why I used the term "snapshot".

                                Sorry, I do not know where or how MRA host / store their data, I would just be guessing.
                                Maybe someone else has the answer?

                                BlackView BV7100, Android 12
                                Normaly navigate Routes in Offline mode with Offline Maps

                                Martin Wilckeundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Brian McGundefined Brian McG

                                  @Martin-Wilcke said in Route ignores obvious left turn:

                                  Does MRA mirror the complete OSM map data on their own server?

                                  Apologies if I misinterpreted your previous post, terminology often does not translate well.

                                  e.g. for me the term "mirror" implies the same data is available in 2 or multiple locations at similar times.
                                  So I would not use "mirror" regarding MRA's OSM data as it is out of date for a considerable amount of time compared to the data available from OSM. It is why I used the term "snapshot".

                                  Sorry, I do not know where or how MRA host / store their data, I would just be guessing.
                                  Maybe someone else has the answer?

                                  Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                  Martin Wilckeundefined Offline
                                  Martin Wilcke
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #24

                                  @Brian-McG

                                  If we're being precise, we're not talking about the map data that is displayed, but rather about the data used for routing.

                                  I assumed that MRA uses a service (i.e. a REST API) that takes over the routing and thus also accesses a server on which the routing data is stored.

                                  If MRA stores the routing data on its server (yes, as a snapshot), then the developers must also have implemented a routing engine (presumably based on one of the available frameworks).

                                  Regardless of how it is technically implemented, the OSM data is obviously updated in long cycles. However, we should bear in mind that MRA focuses on HERE data, which is why the time lag in OSM data is not so important in my view.

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