MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@jack-van-tilburg said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

I often read between the lines that requests from RouteExperts are highly valued.
Does that concern the entire group of Experts?

you read it right

[Tom Cat]

@pad-0 Thank you for the reply. This is really a shame as I'd like fully functional online features but rely on downloaded maps in case I hit a dead zone. I do this with Google Maps for general navigation and even my TomTom will show traffic if I connect it to my phone with a downloaded route. I think this is a huge oversight and probably would not have bought the lifetime Navigation license had I known. I would have just stuck with my TomTom. Oh well, I should have done the research prior to purchasing.

[PAD 0]

@tom-cat Very disappointing, isn’t it. Your only hope (mine too) is that MRA gets its act together and provides something that honours its currently misleading marketing claims.

But I won’t hold my breath…

️

[Con Hennekens]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

@tom-cat Very disappointing, isn’t it. Your only hope (mine too) is that MRA gets its act together and provides something that honours its currently misleading marketing claims.

Sigh...do we really need to repeat that discussion...

@tom-cat, as far as I am concerned there are no misleading claims. Offline Navigation just works. Besides having the maps downloaded off-line, you need to load the routes you want to drive during your off-line stay once. If you do that, these routes will be cached off-line and are visible in BOLD when you are off-line.

In my opinion that is much less effort than importing gpx files to a dedicated satnav device that you have to do else way. The only thing is that MRA does not document this very well (ok, maybe at all). That last route I have opened months ago, and I can just open it up and start navigating it in flight mode. I have never discovered how long and under what circumstances routes keep being cached locally. Things could be improved for sure, and better documented. But don't be discouraged by some people that have convinced themselves all is worthless.

[PAD 0]

@con-hennekens In answer to your opening question, yes! As long as the issues with Navigation persist.

Maybe the app works for you (using Android, if I’m not mistaken?). However, my direct experience of having used it on a day to day basis from the beginning of April to the end of October last year was very far from being reliable and an effective sat nav replacement (and please do bear in mind that I very much do want Navigation to be just that). In fact, out of the dozens of times I used the app only twice did it not misbehave (using it even when I knew precisely where I was going as a means of testing performance after a very disappointing introduction and frequent contact with the support team). And the misbehaviour came in ever changing ways.

The last straw came in Dublin where Navigation decided my chosen route was inappropriate and that I should do a grand tour of the city’s south side rather than follow it. After tying itself in knots, it crashed. There were no road closures to cause issues and I was using offline mode anyway. Seasonal closures were disabled, all waypoints accurately and legitimately placed, etc, etc. Luckily, I know Dublin very well indeed so I was able to ignore the craziness. But out of interest I switched on my ageing but trusty Zūmo 390 (I fabricated a mount that holds phone and sat nav side by side so that I could compare the performance of the two or switch easily to Garmin when Navigation almost invariably flipped its lid) to check whether it had problems with the same route. It picked it up effortlessly and ‘guided’ me to Dublin Port faultlessly… I think that speaks volumes as to those marketing claims.

[Con Hennekens]

@pad-0, I have a Zumo 390 too. I have not touched in in three years, since using Navigation. And yes, every now and then I have to pull over to give it a kick, but probably less often than with my zumo, that is far less handy considering skipping waypoints and things like that. It is largely a matter of perspective I guess.

[PAD 0]

@con-hennekens Truly, I am delighted to learn that you haven’t needed to use your Garmin for so long. It gives a glimmer of hope! Perhaps that perspective is influenced by app version, Android vs iOS?

For instance (and pertinently so, I think?) in the iOS app customers get no such highlighting of recently used routes as indicated in your post, above. This wasn’t covered in a recent discussion of using Navigation offline. It strikes me that this significant difference between app versions (one of a number of such) might help to explain our obviously very different user experiences when accessing, or trying to access, routes offline?

From reading various forum conversations, I have wondered occasionally why the two app versions do differ in various ways? It seems a very odd way to be going about things?

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

For instance (and pertinently so, I think?) in the iOS app customers get no such highlighting of recently used routes as indicated in your post, above. This wasn’t covered in a recent

@con-hennekens said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

...ago, and I can just open it up and start navigating it in flight mode.

To clarify some things: I myself did not see this highlighting before until Con pointed one very significant setting out: the Airplane mode of the phone. I was only able to show the highlighted routes (and with that my previuosly downloaded routes in Offline mode) after I've turned on Airplane mode. Even with the Nav app in Offline mode, but with 4G enabled, the app itself seems to be still in 'online mode' and therefore does not show the actually downloaded routes as highlighted and the rest greyed out). I usually don't drive in offline mode so I have no experience whether the nav actually works offline, when set in offline mode, but with 4G still enabled. @Con-Hennekens Can you perhaps elaborate on this set of conditions?

[PAD 0]

@stefanhummelink To clarify further, can you confirm that the above relates to your using an Android device? Because with my iOS apps, use of offline mode in conjunction with airplane mode results in wall to wall buffering! Just offline mode with mobile data and wifi off works for opening recent routes when in offline mode. That highlighting/greying out doesn’t happen under any circumstances in the iOS version and it would be very, very handy if it did.

Again, I find myself wondering why the difference(s) between iOS and Android versions? I’d be interested and appreciative to see an explanation/justification.

[Steve Lynch]

@pad-0

I occasionally use MRA Navigation now and then as its generally a back up.
I always have the Zumo XT running as well however, but I have found the Android version to be stable for me with the odd issue now and then.
I only use Shaping points, never Via Points on any of my routes.

Yes, the highlighted and un-highlighted routes are on the Android version only. ( I have an old iPhone 6 Plus without a sim).

Clicking on a un-highlighted route gives this pop up.

Clicking Ok clears it and I can still select the highlighted routes.

Android Settings.

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

@stefanhummelink To clarify further, can you confirm that the above relates to your using an Android device?

Yes indeed, I have an Android phone. Oneplus 6.

[Tom Cat]

I finally got a chance to put it through a decent test today. 150 miles over about 4 hours and it worked better than expected. I left it in online mode the whole time. The only complaint I had is that it seems to be about 100 feet or so behind in navigation. By this I mean when approaching a turn by the time it announced the turn I was already on it and it was too late to turn. Honestly, once I realized this I just paid closer attention to the earlier routing notifications when I was approaching a turn such as "turn left in a quarter of a mile."

One other thing I ran into was it not updating the distance to one of my turns upon approach. To be fair this was after a lunch stop where I left the app open and running in the background so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. I noticed the distance to the next turn was stuck at 3300 ft and was not updating. Once I was at the turn it said "turn right" but at that point, it was too late and I was already passing the turn. Once it rerouted everything was fine for the rest f the ride. So I am not sure if this was just a memory issue with it running in the background during my hour lunch stop or what.

Rerouting worked much better than on my TomTom. During my ride, I came across a closed road due to a collapsed bridge and it instantly rerouted like a champ. It also rerouted my missed turns very well.

All-in-all I was pleased with how it worked. For my next ride I will try using offline mode to test that out.

Just for clarification I was using a Pixel 5a and created my ride in Routeplanner using the HERE map.

[Con Hennekens]

@steve-lynch said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

Yes, the highlighted and un-highlighted routes are on the Android version only.

Ouch, that of course I did not know, and I agree with @PAD-0 that it is very strange that the IOS and Android app differ in this (and probably more) respect(s).

I can also confirm that the highlighting ONLY happens when no internet-connection is available. The Off-Line mode has to do with maps and traffic-info, not with the loading of routes.

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

Because with my iOS apps, use of offline mode in conjunction with airplane mode results in wall to wall buffering!

Do you mean that Navigation keeps saying "calculating"? I get that often in on-line as well as off-line mode. But it disappears shortly after going on route. This is certainly one of the quirks...

[Mopetenpit]

@tom-cat said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

One other thing I ran into was it not updating the distance to one of my turns upon approach. To be fair this was after a lunch stop where I left the app open and running in the background so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. I noticed the distance to the next turn was stuck at 3300 ft and was not updating. Once I was at the turn it said "turn right" but at that point, it was too late and I was already passing the turn. Once it rerouted everything was fine for the rest f the ride. So I am not sure if this was just a memory issue with it running in the background during my hour lunch stop or what.

Also had this phenomenon several times, not often, but every now and then. I'm writing this to remind the MRA team of the problem as well. I thought it was just an isolated case with my iPhone....

Peter

[PAD 0]

@con-hennekens The buffering I experience is endless and with no ‘calculating’ message. When I first encountered it, many months ago, I did leave the phone to chew it over for a long time to see did it resolve but I suspect it might still be at it now had I left it! If the buffering was several seconds, or even a minute or two, I could live with that, albeit reluctantly if towards the longer time.

[PAD 0]

@mopetenpit I am shocked at how lax MRA continue to be over the late voice guidance. It is surely only a matter of time before an accident is caused, e.g. due to sudden braking or performing a ‘U’ turn, etc. Were I an executive of the company I would be very concerned - not only for my customers, but also of being held culpable in the event of death or serious injury.

I can’t imagine why this occurs. It’s not something I’ve ever experienced with Garmin sat navs though.

I wonder is this another problem with the iOS app only , or do users of the Android version of Navigation experience it too? (I have experienced it while using both iPhone and iPad - the latter being a wifi only model and running with a Garmin GLO2 GPS/GLONASS unit which I believe is far superior to the onboard Apple chip by some margin in terms of speed, signal and accuracy.)

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

I wonder is this another problem with the iOS app only , or do users of the Android version of Navigation experience it too?

Unfortunately I find the voice guidance being too late for my liking all the time, and sometimes like mentioned by @Mopetenpit extremely late on my Android OnePlus 6 as well! Like, turns being guided while already turning. Lol. I do however look at my screen considerable often to get a glimpse of the road curves ahead, so most of the time I find it not to be any practical problem, however, the app should just not have such quirks.

[PAD 0]

@stefanhummelink Thank you for confirming that. Had I paid more attention I’d have spotted that @Tom-Cat mentioned his use of a Pixel 5a. I agree concerning directions being generally later than I would prefer. And I do find they are far too late quite frequently - occasionally after I have turned!

On the matter of looking at screens while on the move, surely this is generally undesirable from a safety perspective and both hardware and software need to be designed to minimise the need to?
I’m no ‘purist’ here and willingly acknowledge that it’s a reasonable thing to do sometimes, e.g. though I try to avoid UK and Irish motorways as much as is practical, I find junction layout views very useful sometimes, and I prefer to rely on sat nav/app speed readings rather than the speedometer, particularly on my ageing VFR800.

Generally, though, and certainly on my preferred road types, I think all the hazards and developing situations around me is where my attention needs to be, not forced into screen gazing due to badly timed voice guidance.

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

On the matter of looking at screens while on the move, surely this is generally undesirable from a safety perspective and both hardware and software need to be designed to minimise the need to?

I see where you're coming from, however the is in the details here. My smartphone is located in the middle of my handlebar such, that looking at my Speedo equals looking at my phone's screen. That being said, when one looks continuously on their Speedo, you point is stil valid, so it makes sense for me to mention that I purposely look at my screen not due to the app malfunctioning on its basics(like you suggest it may be due to the late voice guidance), but rather because I provides me with information regarding the curve of the upcoming road. I use the app in landscape 3d, so I can see quite far ahead. This however is completely unnecessary in urban conditions, so that's why I merely ride like this on intended curvy roads. Twisties as we know them.

I do look around extensively. In the Netherlands during the mandatory driving lessons to acquire the license, we are trained to be on the lookout for danger all around us. Every car driver is a hired assassin haha! 🤭 So imho for me, I'm not necessarily creating additional risks for myself, since I'm aware of the actual potential dangers ahead.

Regarding the hardware or software limiting this possibility at all: no no no. I'm no fan of some software or hardware prohibiting a certain use. I'd to like to keep stuff in my own hands.

[PAD 0]

@stefanhummelink Sure, I get where you’re coming from, too. My comments were meant in general and not directed at you. Sounds like we have similarly located devices and, yes, for those functions that require just a glance and emulate vehicle instruments, what harm?

I didn’t intend to imply that certain functions should be prevented by design, not my bag at all! Rather, I mean that effective design and function should render all but essential screen gazing unnecessary. I believe that any disabling features should be discretionary and firmly under user control, such as those found on Garmin (some/all?) sat navs.

We do differ on the use of screens to assess the road. Long ago, I encountered the term ‘the map is not the territory’. I think this is equally pertinent to sat nav views. My preference is to keep my head up and my eyes on the road but, hey, that’s just me. We ride our own ride, yes?