MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.

[PAD 0]

@con-hennekens Truly, I am delighted to learn that you haven’t needed to use your Garmin for so long. It gives a glimmer of hope! Perhaps that perspective is influenced by app version, Android vs iOS?

For instance (and pertinently so, I think?) in the iOS app customers get no such highlighting of recently used routes as indicated in your post, above. This wasn’t covered in a recent discussion of using Navigation offline. It strikes me that this significant difference between app versions (one of a number of such) might help to explain our obviously very different user experiences when accessing, or trying to access, routes offline?

From reading various forum conversations, I have wondered occasionally why the two app versions do differ in various ways? It seems a very odd way to be going about things?

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

For instance (and pertinently so, I think?) in the iOS app customers get no such highlighting of recently used routes as indicated in your post, above. This wasn’t covered in a recent

@con-hennekens said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

...ago, and I can just open it up and start navigating it in flight mode.

To clarify some things: I myself did not see this highlighting before until Con pointed one very significant setting out: the Airplane mode of the phone. I was only able to show the highlighted routes (and with that my previuosly downloaded routes in Offline mode) after I've turned on Airplane mode. Even with the Nav app in Offline mode, but with 4G enabled, the app itself seems to be still in 'online mode' and therefore does not show the actually downloaded routes as highlighted and the rest greyed out). I usually don't drive in offline mode so I have no experience whether the nav actually works offline, when set in offline mode, but with 4G still enabled. @Con-Hennekens Can you perhaps elaborate on this set of conditions?

[PAD 0]

@stefanhummelink To clarify further, can you confirm that the above relates to your using an Android device? Because with my iOS apps, use of offline mode in conjunction with airplane mode results in wall to wall buffering! Just offline mode with mobile data and wifi off works for opening recent routes when in offline mode. That highlighting/greying out doesn’t happen under any circumstances in the iOS version and it would be very, very handy if it did.

Again, I find myself wondering why the difference(s) between iOS and Android versions? I’d be interested and appreciative to see an explanation/justification.

[Steve Lynch]

@pad-0

I occasionally use MRA Navigation now and then as its generally a back up.
I always have the Zumo XT running as well however, but I have found the Android version to be stable for me with the odd issue now and then.
I only use Shaping points, never Via Points on any of my routes.

Yes, the highlighted and un-highlighted routes are on the Android version only. ( I have an old iPhone 6 Plus without a sim).

Clicking on a un-highlighted route gives this pop up.

Clicking Ok clears it and I can still select the highlighted routes.

Android Settings.

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

@stefanhummelink To clarify further, can you confirm that the above relates to your using an Android device?

Yes indeed, I have an Android phone. Oneplus 6.

[Tom Cat]

I finally got a chance to put it through a decent test today. 150 miles over about 4 hours and it worked better than expected. I left it in online mode the whole time. The only complaint I had is that it seems to be about 100 feet or so behind in navigation. By this I mean when approaching a turn by the time it announced the turn I was already on it and it was too late to turn. Honestly, once I realized this I just paid closer attention to the earlier routing notifications when I was approaching a turn such as "turn left in a quarter of a mile."

One other thing I ran into was it not updating the distance to one of my turns upon approach. To be fair this was after a lunch stop where I left the app open and running in the background so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. I noticed the distance to the next turn was stuck at 3300 ft and was not updating. Once I was at the turn it said "turn right" but at that point, it was too late and I was already passing the turn. Once it rerouted everything was fine for the rest f the ride. So I am not sure if this was just a memory issue with it running in the background during my hour lunch stop or what.

Rerouting worked much better than on my TomTom. During my ride, I came across a closed road due to a collapsed bridge and it instantly rerouted like a champ. It also rerouted my missed turns very well.

All-in-all I was pleased with how it worked. For my next ride I will try using offline mode to test that out.

Just for clarification I was using a Pixel 5a and created my ride in Routeplanner using the HERE map.

[Con Hennekens]

@steve-lynch said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

Yes, the highlighted and un-highlighted routes are on the Android version only.

Ouch, that of course I did not know, and I agree with @PAD-0 that it is very strange that the IOS and Android app differ in this (and probably more) respect(s).

I can also confirm that the highlighting ONLY happens when no internet-connection is available. The Off-Line mode has to do with maps and traffic-info, not with the loading of routes.

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

Because with my iOS apps, use of offline mode in conjunction with airplane mode results in wall to wall buffering!

Do you mean that Navigation keeps saying "calculating"? I get that often in on-line as well as off-line mode. But it disappears shortly after going on route. This is certainly one of the quirks...

[Mopetenpit]

@tom-cat said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

One other thing I ran into was it not updating the distance to one of my turns upon approach. To be fair this was after a lunch stop where I left the app open and running in the background so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. I noticed the distance to the next turn was stuck at 3300 ft and was not updating. Once I was at the turn it said "turn right" but at that point, it was too late and I was already passing the turn. Once it rerouted everything was fine for the rest f the ride. So I am not sure if this was just a memory issue with it running in the background during my hour lunch stop or what.

Also had this phenomenon several times, not often, but every now and then. I'm writing this to remind the MRA team of the problem as well. I thought it was just an isolated case with my iPhone....

Peter

[PAD 0]

@con-hennekens The buffering I experience is endless and with no ‘calculating’ message. When I first encountered it, many months ago, I did leave the phone to chew it over for a long time to see did it resolve but I suspect it might still be at it now had I left it! If the buffering was several seconds, or even a minute or two, I could live with that, albeit reluctantly if towards the longer time.

[PAD 0]

@mopetenpit I am shocked at how lax MRA continue to be over the late voice guidance. It is surely only a matter of time before an accident is caused, e.g. due to sudden braking or performing a ‘U’ turn, etc. Were I an executive of the company I would be very concerned - not only for my customers, but also of being held culpable in the event of death or serious injury.

I can’t imagine why this occurs. It’s not something I’ve ever experienced with Garmin sat navs though.

I wonder is this another problem with the iOS app only , or do users of the Android version of Navigation experience it too? (I have experienced it while using both iPhone and iPad - the latter being a wifi only model and running with a Garmin GLO2 GPS/GLONASS unit which I believe is far superior to the onboard Apple chip by some margin in terms of speed, signal and accuracy.)

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

I wonder is this another problem with the iOS app only , or do users of the Android version of Navigation experience it too?

Unfortunately I find the voice guidance being too late for my liking all the time, and sometimes like mentioned by @Mopetenpit extremely late on my Android OnePlus 6 as well! Like, turns being guided while already turning. Lol. I do however look at my screen considerable often to get a glimpse of the road curves ahead, so most of the time I find it not to be any practical problem, however, the app should just not have such quirks.

[PAD 0]

@stefanhummelink Thank you for confirming that. Had I paid more attention I’d have spotted that @Tom-Cat mentioned his use of a Pixel 5a. I agree concerning directions being generally later than I would prefer. And I do find they are far too late quite frequently - occasionally after I have turned!

On the matter of looking at screens while on the move, surely this is generally undesirable from a safety perspective and both hardware and software need to be designed to minimise the need to?
I’m no ‘purist’ here and willingly acknowledge that it’s a reasonable thing to do sometimes, e.g. though I try to avoid UK and Irish motorways as much as is practical, I find junction layout views very useful sometimes, and I prefer to rely on sat nav/app speed readings rather than the speedometer, particularly on my ageing VFR800.

Generally, though, and certainly on my preferred road types, I think all the hazards and developing situations around me is where my attention needs to be, not forced into screen gazing due to badly timed voice guidance.

[Stefan Hummelink]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

On the matter of looking at screens while on the move, surely this is generally undesirable from a safety perspective and both hardware and software need to be designed to minimise the need to?

I see where you're coming from, however the is in the details here. My smartphone is located in the middle of my handlebar such, that looking at my Speedo equals looking at my phone's screen. That being said, when one looks continuously on their Speedo, you point is stil valid, so it makes sense for me to mention that I purposely look at my screen not due to the app malfunctioning on its basics(like you suggest it may be due to the late voice guidance), but rather because I provides me with information regarding the curve of the upcoming road. I use the app in landscape 3d, so I can see quite far ahead. This however is completely unnecessary in urban conditions, so that's why I merely ride like this on intended curvy roads. Twisties as we know them.

I do look around extensively. In the Netherlands during the mandatory driving lessons to acquire the license, we are trained to be on the lookout for danger all around us. Every car driver is a hired assassin haha! 🤭 So imho for me, I'm not necessarily creating additional risks for myself, since I'm aware of the actual potential dangers ahead.

Regarding the hardware or software limiting this possibility at all: no no no. I'm no fan of some software or hardware prohibiting a certain use. I'd to like to keep stuff in my own hands.

[PAD 0]

@stefanhummelink Sure, I get where you’re coming from, too. My comments were meant in general and not directed at you. Sounds like we have similarly located devices and, yes, for those functions that require just a glance and emulate vehicle instruments, what harm?

I didn’t intend to imply that certain functions should be prevented by design, not my bag at all! Rather, I mean that effective design and function should render all but essential screen gazing unnecessary. I believe that any disabling features should be discretionary and firmly under user control, such as those found on Garmin (some/all?) sat navs.

We do differ on the use of screens to assess the road. Long ago, I encountered the term ‘the map is not the territory’. I think this is equally pertinent to sat nav views. My preference is to keep my head up and my eyes on the road but, hey, that’s just me. We ride our own ride, yes?

[Steve Lynch]

@pad-0

I agree that Android MRA Navigation is also laggy when using voice navigation. Basically I turn it off.
Haven’t noticed any lag in the actual GPS location however.

I took a trip to Loomies Cafe in Arundel yesterday.
My plan was to take the iPhone 6 Plus as well as the Zumo XT.
Whilst prepping the routes with WiFi on to ensure they were available in MRA NavigationI had a strange thing happen.
When hitting the exit button it was actually shutting the Navigation App down not going back to the Route page.
Had to uninstall-reinstall the App.
Didn’t bother taking the iPhone with me.

Regarding keeping eyes on the road the Zumo XT position on the Tiger 900 Rally Pro is perfect for a quick glance.

[Herko ter Horst]

So, there's more info on MRA Navigation Next and what it means for the current app in a new blog post: https://blog.myrouteapp.com/mra-navigation-next/

[Stefan Hummelink]

@herko-ter-horst Woa: " In fact, we are also going to work hard with improvements with the current navigation app, such as a folder structure for your routes." We've been heard!

[Con Hennekens]

@pad-0 said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

Generally, though, and certainly on my preferred road types, I think all the hazards and developing situations around me is where my attention needs to be, not forced into screen gazing due to badly timed voice guidance.

Of course attention needs to be focused on the road. But having a glance on the display at a self chosen moment, and thus knowing (without auditive assistance) where to go helps A LOT in avoiding dangerous situations. I have been running my Garmins for many years without headset in my helmet, and thus driving on the screen only. In my opinion a glimpse on your screen tells a lot more than a 1000 words.

But I share the thought that the spoken assistance is sometimes a bit late. It has never happened to me AFTER the turn though. And mostly it has been said already a few 100mtres earlier.

The words are however often not spoken clearly. Often I hear in "150 metre" the "One Hundred" and the "fifty" spoken simultaneously. At first I thought it was a phone problem, but my new phone does the same.

[Stefan Hummelink]

@con-hennekens said in MRA Navigation and downloaded maps.:

The words are however often not spoken clearly. Often I hear in "150 metre" the "One Hundred" and the "fifty" spoken simultaneously. At first I thought it was a phone problem, but my new phone does the same.

This happens to me quite often as well!

[PAD 0]

@con-hennekens I’m happy to live with our differing viewpoints on how best to ride or drive. And I’m quite sure you are too.

On the words vs image (there’s a song about that!), sure, I agree. But I’m not for a moment suggesting otherwise. My ’case’ is that viewing the road and surrounding environment is vastly more informative than the screen view, not least because it’s live, plus such things as vanishing points can be utilised. We are always potentially small fractions of a second away from disaster and, in my view, anything but cursory glances at a screen are undesirable.

If voice guidance is late, vague or even completely absent (which I have found to be a quite frequent trait of Navigation) and we are caused to look at the screen often and unnecessarily, that’s not some ‘inconvenience’, it’s a major flaw. A user’s choice, on the other hand, to not use voice guidance is akin to the aforementioned option to turn certain Garmin sat nav functions on and off, is it not? Choice vs no choice…

And, yes, advance guidance is sometimes given well before a turn but, equally often, in many environments there are multiple junctions between that announcement and the intended turn. I feel that these, while undeniably useful as a ‘heads up’, are no substitute for well timed and sufficiently clear and detailed follow up guidance.

Due to endless glitches and complete failures, most of my use of the Navigation app has been as a test and in circumstances when I knew routes anyway and didn’t need navigation. I have never felt sufficiently confident in the reliability of the app to venture out without my Garmin on board when I did require navigation (however did we get anywhere before sat nav?🤪). In some circumstances I‘d have been ‘up the creek’ had I tried to rely on Navigation. As someone who really does want MRA to be successful in developing and providing a genuine alternative to expensive dedicated sat nav devices, I find that hugely disappointing…

But, as it stands, Navigation is not just disappointingly inadequate in my experience, it has the inbuilt potential to be bloody dangerous. And yet, despite increasing evidence (via support tickets and this forum at least) that this is a widespread user experience, I have not seen so much as a word from MRA to acknowledge the problem, let alone any effort to fix it. Why?