Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures
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To all valued participants in this discussion.
I think everything essential has been said.
I posted this suggestion specifically in the “Suggestions and Discussion” section because I wanted to propose what I believe is an improvement to MRA.
The topic has been assigned to @Corjan-Meijerink, and he has already responded to it.
I don’t know how the decision-making processes work at MRA, but for me, the discussion here has reached a point where I don’t want to invest any more effort into it.
Should it come to implementation, I would be more than happy to offer my assistance in designing the process. Process development is my profession.
Best, Axel
@Axel-Härtl I think it's a fantastic idea. I don't understand the "fear" some users have of improvements. If there were no improvements, we'd still be using paper maps.
Again, thank you very much, Axel, for your suggestion.Creator and administrator of the largest MRA groups.
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@Axel-Härtl I think it's a fantastic idea. I don't understand the "fear" some users have of improvements. If there were no improvements, we'd still be using paper maps.
Again, thank you very much, Axel, for your suggestion. -
Hi all!
From my point of view, if app users didn't provide suggestions for improvements or changes, we wouldn't need the wide range of apps we have: we'd all just use Google Maps, period. Or paper maps... or rely on our memory.
It's true that not everything goes, but just as improvements are managed within the app itself, having a "quick" way to cancel a section of a route seems great to me. And here, everyone can use it or not, based on their personal preferences.
@Nick-Carthew , it's an option that will be (I suppose) in the menu. I don't think that part is so bothersome that you wouldn't want it implemented. If it's developed and you don't want to use it, that's perfectly fine.
I think it's a great idea!!!
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I do hope that we’re not going to over complicate the app by adding more buttons and settings. In my 50 years of using our road systems, I have encountered both blocked motorway exits caused by accidents and unexpected road closures (fallen tree) and I have always dealt with them without an additional magic button. Some of the posts in this thread paint an almost apocalyptic picture where these unexpected closures are happening on a daily basis. Just my thoughts.
@Nick-Carthew I don’t want to let that go unchallenged.
Complication:
First of all, I can’t see what would be so complicated about using a ‘block button’.Apocalyptic Szenario:
The problems on German motorways and roads have become significantly worse in recent years (I’ve been riding a motorbike for exactly 50 years myself). In any case, these sudden road closures are no longer the absolute exception.General benefit:
The app contains some features that aren’t relevant to ME, but I recognise that other users value them. If you don’t need help with diversions, be grateful for your sense of direction.
As I’m unfortunately not blessed with one, I use a Navdevice and would be grateful for any further technical support to get me back on track to my destination.Or as we say say in Germany: "Haben ist besser als brauchen!" ("to have is better than to need")
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Let me state now that I am not opposed to developing the app, I have every faith in the development team at MRA to come up with a good solution to this request if it is achievable. Maybe the reality of the real world is different to mine, I try to avoid motorway riding as much as possible, preferring roads with grass in the middle if possible. So perhaps the need for a magic button is greater than what I perceive. If I ever come across a situation where I need the magic button I would certainly not hesitate to tap it.
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In my opinion, this function would be very useful also in such cases:
- The HERE map is not up to date and the selected road is not accessible for motorbikes in reality (often in cities, mountains, etc.), so I have to find a quick detour.
- The road is not blocked, but the surface condition is not acceptable to me (there is some sand or mud, for example), so I decide to turn back.
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All very valid, but the common denominator is that you usually do not know in advance for how long you need to block the road. Maybe a more sensible idea is to be able to tap on the map where you want to try to rejoin the route, avoiding the route until that point is reached. Much like already exist while navigating tracks. You can already choose your own point to skip to by long-pressing any point on the track. You just cannot avoid the track being part of the detour.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
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All very valid, but the common denominator is that you usually do not know in advance for how long you need to block the road. Maybe a more sensible idea is to be able to tap on the map where you want to try to rejoin the route, avoiding the route until that point is reached. Much like already exist while navigating tracks. You can already choose your own point to skip to by long-pressing any point on the track. You just cannot avoid the track being part of the detour.
Hi Con,
Thanks for your post.
Actually, I didn’t want to write anything more on this topic. But now, just a quick note.
Of course, you don’t know how long the road closure ahead of you will be in advance. Now there are two scenarios.
1: The estimated length of the closure (e.g., 10 km) is sufficient. Then the biker reaches the originally planned route and can continue toward the destination.
2: The estimated length of the closure is too short and insufficient. In that case, the biker ends up facing the closed route again and must repeat the detour process. This may continue until he reaches the open originally planned route.
Therefore the uncertainty of the estimation of the length of a closure is no problem in practice.
In any case, skipping via-points on the detoured planned route must be taken into account. Shaping-points can be skipped automatically.
By the way: adding new shaping points by klicking and holding a point on the map during navigation doesn't work on my mobile phone. I tried this several times. Probably I'm doing something wrong.
BMW R 1200 RT
BMW C 650 GT
Tourenorientiert
MRA lifetime member -
Hi Con,
Thanks for your post.
Actually, I didn’t want to write anything more on this topic. But now, just a quick note.
Of course, you don’t know how long the road closure ahead of you will be in advance. Now there are two scenarios.
1: The estimated length of the closure (e.g., 10 km) is sufficient. Then the biker reaches the originally planned route and can continue toward the destination.
2: The estimated length of the closure is too short and insufficient. In that case, the biker ends up facing the closed route again and must repeat the detour process. This may continue until he reaches the open originally planned route.
Therefore the uncertainty of the estimation of the length of a closure is no problem in practice.
In any case, skipping via-points on the detoured planned route must be taken into account. Shaping-points can be skipped automatically.
By the way: adding new shaping points by klicking and holding a point on the map during navigation doesn't work on my mobile phone. I tried this several times. Probably I'm doing something wrong.
@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
In any case, skipping via-points on the detoured planned route must be taken into account. Shaping-points can be skipped automatically.
Yes, that exactly why I mention my oher view on the matter. If you choose your own point of re-entry, VIA points are no longer an issue, since you can choose a point behind it.
I think what you and I propose is quite similar, but instead of giving a number for the distance in kilometers, of which you cannot see where that ends, you can choose a logical point of re-entry yourself, using an already existing feature. Only thing that needs a change is being able to avoid the use of the originally calculated route (white line) until that point.
@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
By the way: adding new shaping points by klicking and holding a point on the map during navigation doesn't work on my mobile phone. I tried this several times. Probably I'm doing something wrong.
I don't think you are doing anything wrong, I think you are navigating a track (or route-as-track feature enabled). When you navigate a common route, you can add route points, you cannot add route points to a track.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Check out RideSleepRepeat.eu, a biker community for sharing stays across Europe
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@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
In any case, skipping via-points on the detoured planned route must be taken into account. Shaping-points can be skipped automatically.
Yes, that exactly why I mention my oher view on the matter. If you choose your own point of re-entry, VIA points are no longer an issue, since you can choose a point behind it.
I think what you and I propose is quite similar, but instead of giving a number for the distance in kilometers, of which you cannot see where that ends, you can choose a logical point of re-entry yourself, using an already existing feature. Only thing that needs a change is being able to avoid the use of the originally calculated route (white line) until that point.
@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
By the way: adding new shaping points by klicking and holding a point on the map during navigation doesn't work on my mobile phone. I tried this several times. Probably I'm doing something wrong.
I don't think you are doing anything wrong, I think you are navigating a track (or route-as-track feature enabled). When you navigate a common route, you can add route points, you cannot add route points to a track.
Hi Con,
Thanks for your message.
Question: If I select an entry point beyond a via-point - does MRA skip that via-point automatically? I always thought, that in contrary to a shaping-point, a via-point is forced to be reached or to manually skip it.
I navigate using routes, not tracks. Being a long-time MRA fellow, I'm aware of the difference.
While navigating, the screen doesn’t respond when I tap and hold a point on the map. I have to stop the navigation (or at least pause it). Only then can I add more points to the route. Is that the correct and intended process?
Best, Axel
BMW R 1200 RT
BMW C 650 GT
Tourenorientiert
MRA lifetime member -
Hi Con,
Thanks for your message.
Question: If I select an entry point beyond a via-point - does MRA skip that via-point automatically? I always thought, that in contrary to a shaping-point, a via-point is forced to be reached or to manually skip it.
I navigate using routes, not tracks. Being a long-time MRA fellow, I'm aware of the difference.
While navigating, the screen doesn’t respond when I tap and hold a point on the map. I have to stop the navigation (or at least pause it). Only then can I add more points to the route. Is that the correct and intended process?
Best, Axel
@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
I always thought, that in contrary to a shaping-point, a via-point is forced to be reached or to manually skip it.
Sure, but choosing a point beyond it equals manually skipping it. Same as in a route, when you are at say RP 10, and you manually set 15 as skip to route point. The VIAs in between are also skipped.
@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
have to stop the navigation (or at least pause it). Only then can I add more points to the route. Is that the correct and intended process?
Hmm, I tried this to be sure, but my Android lets me press and hold for extra route points while navigating a (real) route. Just when you press exactly on the route line, it does not do anything. No need to place a route point there, since it is already going there I guess.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Check out RideSleepRepeat.eu, a biker community for sharing stays across Europe
-
@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
I always thought, that in contrary to a shaping-point, a via-point is forced to be reached or to manually skip it.
Sure, but choosing a point beyond it equals manually skipping it. Same as in a route, when you are at say RP 10, and you manually set 15 as skip to route point. The VIAs in between are also skipped.
@Axel-Härtl said in Proposal for an algorithm to guide around unexpected road closures:
have to stop the navigation (or at least pause it). Only then can I add more points to the route. Is that the correct and intended process?
Hmm, I tried this to be sure, but my Android lets me press and hold for extra route points while navigating a (real) route. Just when you press exactly on the route line, it does not do anything. No need to place a route point there, since it is already going there I guess.
