Automatically skipping shaping points Part 2
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Let me put an end to this as I'm the only one that can
Viapoints will never be skipped automatically. Simply as that, end of discussion.
Shapingpoints however can be skipped automatically. They are however still part of your route and not that unimportant that they can be skipped immediately. Not everyone is religiously marking every crucial waypoint a viapoint. We have to make the majority happy, which we did.Skipping waypoints is so bloody easy that a situation where you are redirected once or twice back to a missed shapingpoint is fine. You can always skip yourself and if you keep ignoring it, the waypoint will be skipped eventually.
So, what is the logic?
- Are recalculations enabled? Yes, continue. No, user needs to navigate back to route himself
- Are we moving? Yes, continue. No, route back to the missed waypoint. This is to prevent skipping waypoints automatically while refuelling, having lunch.
- Is skipping waypoints enabled? Yes, continue. No, route back to missed waypoint (even if shaping and hence it will never be sipped)
- Is it a via? Yes, return the viapoint. No, continue
- Are you more than 30 km away from the shaping? Yes, return back to shaping. No, continue. This is to prevent skipping shapingpoints too far on your route.
- Are you within 100 meters of the shaping point? Yes, go to next waypoint immediately. No, continue.
- Is it your first deviation? Yes, return back to missed waypoint. No, continue. This results in always having a route back to your missed waypoint. You need at least 2 recalculations
If you get here, we will determine the nearest logical marker on your route. In short, we calculate routes till the next 10 markers and select the marker to which the distance is shortest as the waypoint to skip to. In this process viapoints will still never be skipped.
When the determined nearest marker is not your current missed waypoint you will be sent to that marker. If the nearest marker is still the one you missed, you will be sent back to that one. So the shape of your route and waypoint placing is quite important
If all else fails the amount of recalculations are still counted. When you have 4 (or more) recalculations the missed waypoint will always be skipped for the next.
So that's it.
It works quite well for the majority but obviously there are scenario's where you can fool it. Changing it is not hard for me but we had it way more aggressive and then people complained too many shaping points were missed even when it made sense for the algorithm.People make routes will all different kind of waypoints and placement / density of them. Everyone needs to be satisfied. We already have a lot of configuration options, I don't yet feel something to allow users to influence the parameters of this logic.
As people indicate here, the algorithm does it's work to send you around roadworks and stuff like that but yes, you will always need a second recalculation and then the road layout around you and your own waypoint placement will still influence the route
Over and out.
@Corjan-Meijerink Thank you. That's very, very helpful!
(Sorry that I didn't respond sooner but I just saw this as we've been out riding since early morning)
Steve
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So after reading all your posts @Steve-Jarrell the main conclusion is.
- Shaping points are not skipped consistently as it depends on placement of the next waypoints and the current road layout. So it is consistent for the algorithm but maybe not for user perspective
- You always needs at least 2 recalculations (which makes sense as you still placed that waypoint for a reason to ride that specific road)
Full explanation of the logic can be found above
The main reason for the conservative behavior is that people do still tend to stick to their route. Meaning that the general public prefers being recalculated back to missed point rather than it being skipped immediately.
@Corjan-Meijerink Thank you very much!
A walk-through of the logic was very helpful and it makes perfectly good sense. It clears up a lot of my confusion (and I'm easily confused!
) about exactly what's happening and why.My main problem happens when I don't know that a waypoint has been skipped for whatever reason and I'm being routed back to it. As you pointed out, and I agree 100%, it's VERY easy to skip a waypoint IF you realize that you're being routed back to it.
If there's any way possible I'd like to suggest a future enhancement where if, for any reason, the user is being routed back to a skipped waypoint that there be a clear indication somehow.
Thank you!
Best regards,
Steve
- Shaping points are not skipped consistently as it depends on placement of the next waypoints and the current road layout. So it is consistent for the algorithm but maybe not for user perspective
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@Steve-Jarrell glad this helps
I will take it into consideration for future improvements! -
@Steve-Jarrell glad this helps
I will take it into consideration for future improvements!@Corjan-Meijerink Thank you very much!
Steve
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Follow up question.
Corjans description says this:
"Are recalculations enabled? Yes, continue. No, user needs to navigate back to route himself".
I might misunderstand this, but doesn't this mean that in @Steve-Jarrell example he shouldnt be send back to the missed shaping point if recalculation is disabled?
I always have this one disabled. Sometimes the app sends me back sometimes not. I have not been able to find a pattern in this but hope to have a video of such a case one day. -
My usage of MRA is low just because the issues discussed in this topic. It is not consistent indeed. Yesterday i did a small test and everything works wunderfull. Both in the app only and Android Auto. But many times it was the opposite and MRA forced me to skip manual. While i think this is job for the software. When this happens. Many times i stop MRA and proceed the route with a different app which doesn't forced me to press some buttons. When i ride i just want to follow the routeline, trust it is the correct direction without concerns i am send back to a point i can't reach (i did not missed a shaping point on purpose).
With this i mind i miss a logic in @Corjan-Meijerink list of logics.
- When back on the original route (i.e after roadworks), or still on the original route, skipped all missed shaping points which should be skipped already and proceed to the next waypoint.
This logic is an extra step when the other logics for autoskip should skip a shaping point but somehow it didn't autoskip.
(I use MRA Next only on Android Auto. Every comment, suggestion, etc will be based on my usage with Android Auto)
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My usage of MRA is low just because the issues discussed in this topic. It is not consistent indeed. Yesterday i did a small test and everything works wunderfull. Both in the app only and Android Auto. But many times it was the opposite and MRA forced me to skip manual. While i think this is job for the software. When this happens. Many times i stop MRA and proceed the route with a different app which doesn't forced me to press some buttons. When i ride i just want to follow the routeline, trust it is the correct direction without concerns i am send back to a point i can't reach (i did not missed a shaping point on purpose).
With this i mind i miss a logic in @Corjan-Meijerink list of logics.
- When back on the original route (i.e after roadworks), or still on the original route, skipped all missed shaping points which should be skipped already and proceed to the next waypoint.
This logic is an extra step when the other logics for autoskip should skip a shaping point but somehow it didn't autoskip.
@M.-Schrijver I agree with you. MRA Nav being a multipoint system it is no surprise that this is the core and complex.
Currently the app has one way of dealing with a missed point.
I strongly feel that it is impossible to make everybody happy with one algorithm. But I can also understand the reluctance to expose parameters to an internal algorithm.
But, as mentioned before, maybe there is a way to offer multiple algorithms whereby at least one is easy to understand and document.
I stumbled across LocusMap the other day which has Point priority and Route priority navigation. I dont know if it is of any use for us but I found it interesting. -
Would it help if , having missed a waypoint, the rerouting line was a different colour to the main route, so one could figure out at a glance whether they were going back to a missed waypoint or continuing with the route. Then the app could skip the waypoint after 3 reroutes or whatever, and the rider would know which colour line to follow depending on their preference for that waypoint until the app catches up again
Hardware
Google Pixel 7 W GrapheneOS Android 15
Samsung Active Tab 3 Android 13
Lenovo TBX606X Android 10 -
Would it help if , having missed a waypoint, the rerouting line was a different colour to the main route, so one could figure out at a glance whether they were going back to a missed waypoint or continuing with the route. Then the app could skip the waypoint after 3 reroutes or whatever, and the rider would know which colour line to follow depending on their preference for that waypoint until the app catches up again
@Neil-q That would probably work. Any way that would visually show that you are being routed back to a skipped waypoint (shaping point) would be extremely helpful.
Thanks!
Steve
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@Neil-q That would probably work. Any way that would visually show that you are being routed back to a skipped waypoint (shaping point) would be extremely helpful.
Thanks!
Steve
@Steve-Jarrell Thanks for the feedback!
I'm not sure how to request this as a feature, can anyone help?
Thanks
Neil
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