GPX Versions 1.1 vs 1.2 for Garmin Visually Explained

[Simon James Hancock]

I am trying to avoid using tread. I do al my planning in MRA and save to the garmin sd card.

[Steve Jarrell]

@Simon-James-Hancock On my XT3 I use black and set it to the widest width and I can see it just fine. I had forgotten all about the Theme file that @mzokk detailed but I had to create one for my XT in order to see my track as well

[Steve Jarrell]

@Carl-Lee said:

"And if you are using Tread, the track must be put in a collection that is visible."

Note that it doesn't matter if you're using the Tread app or not. I normally don't use Tread. I place my .gpx files in the /gpx folder using a USB connection.

When the Garmin XT3 imports them it asks me which collection to put them in. If the visibility of that collection isn't turned I will see the route when you select it, but I won't see the track.

[Steve Jarrell]

@Simon-James-Hancock I don't like using Tread either. I use a USB C to C cable directly from my Macbook Pro to my XT3 and use the free OpenMTP app to manually place my .gpx files in the /gpx folder. It's VERY fast and works 100% of the time.

If I do have the Tread app connected to my XT3, Tread (and the Explore website) will automatically synch with collections, routes and tracks that I manually put on the Garmin.

(Geek overload section follows)

Here's a screenshot of what the OpenMTP app looks like on my Macbook (this would look basically the same if I was using File Explorer on a PC) when I've copied my .gpx files into the \gpx folder before the XT3 has imported them into its internal memory.

The interesting thing that I've discovered is once the XT3 imports the .gpx files, it deletes the Track section from the file but leaves the route information (which in the 1.2 format contains a copy of the track) in the file and does not delete the file. The result of this is that even if you delete the route in the Garmin's internal memory a copy of it is still in the \gpx folder, and it can be imported again and again.

If you've manually uploaded a gpx file into the \gpx folder it's up to you to delete it manually which is fine with me. Tread skips the \gpx folder and loads the gpx information directly into the devices internal memory.

[John S Parry]

@Steve-Jarrell I got out again today to run another test of "Up Ahead", but this time without adding/inserting a via stop into the 1.2 route.

For testing, I created a new 1.2 route to simulate a real situation. When I was few miles from my test deviation, I did the "Up Ahead" thing, selecting the via point to route to. This time, I selected "create a new route" instead of modifying my 1.2 route. I pressed "Go", and my new route started guiding me. I got to the new destination without issue. While stopped, I brought my 1.2 route back up, and it immediately presented the starting point radio box. I selected 'Closest Enry Point", and off I went. Long story short, the remaining route continued exactly as originally planned. Success!

I love it! No skipping waypoints or other stuff you have to deal with on the Next app. I'm now confident I can use 1.2 for just about any situation.

[Steve Jarrell]

@John-S-Parry Awesome!

That makes logical sense (that's not always the case with Garmin) as the 1.2 gpx route has a LOT of gps coordinate pairs in it so when you selected "Nearest Point" it obviously guided you back to one of those points then you were on your way. That's the way that I was hoping that it worked.

Thanks very much for the update!

[Carl Lee]

@steve-jarrell that was a huge typo on my part. It was meant to read “and even if you are not using Tread”. I must have been tired. I’m all Zumo’d out.

[Steve Jarrell]

@Carl-Lee Been there. Done that. Have the t-shirt!

[John S Parry]

@Carl-Lee said:

" I'd like to add something about recalculation. I haven't played with 'Up Ahead' places by inserting them into my route but on a normal deviation from a 1.2 route with recalculation left on, I've found there is a recalculation but it logically puts you back on your intended route - maybe with a u-turn or merging with it a little further along."

This got me thinking about recalculation to get the Zumo to return you to the route. So I had to go out and check.

You're correct that going off route, with recalculation left on, will simply attempt to return you to the route. It does not recalculate the whole route and trash your custom shaping up ahead. I performed conscious off-route deviations at least three separate times, and they all did nothing other than try to return me to the route. A few of the Zumo decisions on returning me were head scratchers, but they worked, and the route continued as normal.

The recalculations that are a NO-NO are actions that modify the route itself. As discussed, that can be through using "Up Ahead" and inserting a new via point as the next stop. Using Search to find a POI and inserting that via point as the next stop is equally disastrous. In short, don't do anything that modifies your route and triggers a recalculation.

From my perspective, using 1.2 GPX files in the Zumo works very well if you understand the behavior.

[Steve Jarrell]

@John-S-Parry "In short, don't do anything that modifies your route and triggers a recalculation."

I think that sums it up perfectly!

I leave auto-recalculation turned off just from habit using so many different versions of the Garmin, and I'd rather just get back on the route by myself, but off-route re-calculation does not seem to trigger the dreaded "ok, you changed the route manually so that gives me (the Garmin) permission to do whatever I want to to your route".

[Carl Lee]

Still some more testing to be done I think. I’m wondering if “shaping” the route on the Zumo just by adding some more shaping points (not vias) will damage it. In reality, this is something I would rarely, if ever, do but it would be nice to know.
When I get chance……

And anyway, even leaving auto recalculation off, if you’re struggling to get back on the route (it happens!), stopping it and restarting with CEP is a fine and still won’t destroy the route.

[Steve Jarrell]

@Carl-Lee Yep, you're right. Restarting the route from any point is FAR better than doing ANYTHING that signals the Garmin that it's ok to change your route as it sees fit.

As far as adding the shaping points goes I really don't know. I've never done that as I've never had the need to do so. For that matter I've never created a route directly on the Garmin either, so for me there are still a lot of unturned stones!

[John S Parry]

@Steve-Jarrell Yes, it seems with a high degree of confidence, that 1.2 off-route recalculation does not seem to trigger a complete recalculation of the route. It's simply a re-calculation to get you back to the route. I don't think there is an overt amount of intelligence within the Zumo. In each case where I intentionally went off-route to trigger auto recalculation, it tried to turn me around back to the off-route spot for route re-entry. Even when there was a shorter re-entry point a little further up. In a way it makes sense, because it wants you hit all points on the route. But it's not always optimal if all you want is to get back to a point on the route as quickly as possible.

To the last observations made by @carl-lee, I don't know for sure if adding shaping points on the Zumo will destroy the route. But my best guess is that it will. I think that playing with the track sections of a 1.2 route, with adding either Shaping points or Vias, will communicate to the Zumo that all bets are off and trigger a total route recalculation.

Why do I say this? It's not 100% apples-to-apples, but when I export the track of a MRA route as a GPX and then import it into Garmin Basecamp, everything is fine after converting the Track to a Route. If at that point I try to make any modifications, either Shaping or Via, I get a BC warning message to the effect that a total recalculation will take place. I'm guessing this logic also applies to 1.2 routes on the Zumo. An example of Garmin being Garmin. It might be an interesting experiment to conduct, but someone else will have to pick up that torch.